That worst candidate didn’t win by a landslide either time, so I don’t think it’s fair to say America will never vote for a woman. Lots of Americans did vote for a woman. According to CNN: “More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than any other losing presidential candidate in US history.”

People forget that aside from the email bullshit, it was widely reported that Clinton received something like 26 million dollars for speaking engagements, behind closed doors to bankers and American robber barons. Some parts of her speeches were leaked, but she never released any transcripts. I think that fueled voter apathy and “both sides the same” feeling for a lot of people, including two-income families struggling to make ends meet.

You think if a man had done the same, no-one except Bernie Sanders would care?

As for the second strong capable woman, I voted for her, despite her seeming support for the ongoing genocide. I’m not convinced that election was legit.

Meanwhile, with a compromised press and Trump ignoring any judicial ruling he dislikes, the Democrats are still no help. They’re nearly as crazy as Trump if they think that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez could be a viable presidential candidate. No matter what they think of her policies, very few Republicans who despise Trump would vote for her. “I wouldn’t,” my White House source told me. “I’m not crazy. The far left is as bad as the far right, and they’re the reason I voted for Trump.” There are plenty of moderate Democrats who agree.

Imagine thinking AOC is far left. Ok now imagine thinking that kind of far left is just as bad as the far right.

Like for example, informing people of their constitutional rights, advocating for things like accessible Healthcare and protections for workers is every but as bad as shipping people off without due process to El Salvador prison where they’ll die, grabbed by a militarized and masked police force that snatches people off the street, or from their homes or school.

Somehow it’s the fault of the democrats who won’t accept moderate Republicans. But also there are plenty of moderate democrats that agree that the far left is just as bad.

Well it’s amazing that insiders are finally able to suspect something is wrong, but they are still so gripped by cult doctrine they can’t make any progress.

I’m getting really damn tired of having a choice between the conservative party cosplaying as liberals and the fascist party cosplaying as conservatives.

damn straight.

I’m voting Harris, for all the reasons outlined in this thread, but damn it chaps my hide that this is like the trolley problem where the trolly will go down the 100% evil track unless you pull the lever to go down the %25 less evil track. Everybody in here seems to think we shouldn’t want a better track, it’s just not practical or possible to do anything better.

Is nobody else here frustrated that the only alternative we have to the orange fascist is a prosecutor that put countless brothers and sister into the racist for-profit prison system for having weed? This is the alternative that progressives are excited about?

I read a line somewhere -I forget where- but it was something to the effect that always voting for the lesser of two evils means getting the second worst possible america. Are y’all so pragmatic that wanting anything other than the second worst america is automatically interpreted as a bot, or a Russian troll, or a stupid college kid in a Che t-shirt that only wants to endlessly critique?

Is anyone on the fence going to be swayed by a debate anyway? I think the people who are really not sure about which way to vote at this point likely can’t be reasoned out of wasting their vote on some third party.

To anyone reading this that is considering voting 3rd party, my advice is to vote dem and then put as much political pressure on the democrats as possible the other 364 days of the year. The alternative, while maybe morally pure, is a lot less workable and doesn’t benefit others.

I don’t 100% know if this is what mockingmoniker is getting at, but I want to give a word of possible explanation from my own perspective: Christians make a distinction between “sin” and “sinner” - or are at least supposed to. It’s my understanding from being sent to Christian school that people are decieved or led astray or get tempted or whatever, but it’s the actions that are “sinful” or “evil” or “demonic,” not the persons. This is the meaning of “hate the sin but love the sinner” - which is not actually in the bible btw. There are some verses that address this, for example Romans 5:8 or Ezekiel 33:11 in which God says he isn’t happy about the death of wicked people but would rather they turn from their ways and live. Look up that one- it literally says “turn back from your evil ways, for why do you die, Oh house of Israel?” Still relevant. But I’m going off topic.

Of course, Christians are people too, and are generally pretty poor at following their own code of conduct. Also there are plenty of wolves in sheep’s clothing that use theological language for their own worldly goals, and it can be difficult to know which is which. Generally people in worldly positions of power that use theological language are the latter.

Unless you have something in mind that you want, that you know you can get a good deal on, I think you would be better off saving your money than buying something you don’t want/need just for the sake of a black Friday deal.

This whole black Friday thing gets hyped so much that you start to think “I better get in on these bargain prices,” but the truth is that some retailers actually raise their prices on some things in October and then lower them back to regular 40% markup and call it a “SIZZILIN SALE PRICE!!!”

So in conclusion, if there’s something you want, check different sources and compare prices. Otherwise, don’t get scammed into thinking you’re missing out, you are not. Source: I am 55 years old, have worked in retail.

Been in the foodservice industry for a lot of years. Quit that and switched to nonprofit social services.

I am of the age that I remember helping my mom set the time on her VCR so it would stop blinking 12:00. Now I need my kids to help me with stuff they consider pretty basic.