cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/12919255
When I first went to a white high school, something I noticed right away is that there were these young men there, kids really, with a very very distinctly thousand yard stare. Every one of them had been subjected to a police raid, by swat or similar. I will use the phrase, “veterans of the war on drugs”, as a joke, but yeah, that is actually how I expect this time to be remembered. As an adult, I think it’s pretty obvious that the difference with this high school was that the families of the children subjected to these raids more or less abandoned them. Literally, in the case of those subject to incarceration. So it is not that urban schools are not also subject to the same raids; it’s definitely the opposite. Rather, it was so normalized that local community and family structures have adapted to resist them.
Anyway, the US is an authoritarian state. It’s not totalitarian. It’s not fascist, yet, and most people still recognize the democratic elements of the US as legitimate. However the fact remains, the US is ,through and through, from the heights of government, to society at large, authoritarian. Authoritarianism as a concept, can be broken down into two categories, institutional and individual. Anyone that has ever been a child in this country or met a man from here knows that this country has a serious and pervasive issue with individuals inclined towards authoritarianism in their daily lives. And and I am just so so sorry for this, but I don’t understand any other way than just ripping off the Band-Aid, you’re here, I have to assume you’re here for it: outside of the context of American exceptionalism, the idea that a slave society could ever under any circumstances be a bastion for freedom is fucking deranged.
America’s founding myth is just that, a founding myth. It is a fabrication, in support of a government, just like the founding myth of every other empire. Easiest one, America wasn’t the first democracy wasn’t the first modern democracy wasn’t any of this nonsense. You can tell because the government that it split away from and fought a war against, was a democracy. It’s not even the first republic, the Dutch were right there. The revolutionary war was a shortsighted power grab by local elites willing to sacrifice their community in exchange for a chance at securing their ill gotten gains. The founding fathers were warlords, propagandists and hypocrites of the highest order. Their glorious revolution left a third of the free population dead, and a majority of the remainder displaced, to say nothing of the conditions of the enslaved. Then they committed genocide on the Native Americans 100 times over, and helped invent scientific racism and codify white supremacy so deeply into the blood of America that there are people to this day, who would swear to you that it’s a real and natural part of the world. Bottom line, it’s all fine and good to recognize some democratic elements of the US government at its inception, but that does not exculpate the US for its crimes against humanity. Authoritarianism is not the opposite of democracy. They don’t cancel each other out.
Wrapup: by the standards of anyone not currently filating American exceptionalism, the US was an authoritarian state until at least 1963, with the official disintegration of the American racial class system. Immediately, the groundwork for the modern mass incarceration system was laid, and since at least 2001, the US is openly authoritarian again. Specifically, in terms of separate sets of rights for different groups of people, in particular along racial lines. Sorry, again, if through the course of conducting this research this conclusion is disproven, I will be ecstatic and happy to let everyone know. As it stands, the soul of America is not democracy or progressive change, it’s self destructive bourgeoisie capitalism stretched across a skeleton of white supremacy. That is the reality of the situation. I am sorry.
Holy cow. This is ridiculous.
Except for the part about the US committing genocide native Americans, that is correct.
The rest of this post is an inaccurate, equivocating mess.
Referring to the US as a fascist state is not trees for the forest or forest for the trees, but forgetting that are any trees and putting up a sign that has donuts nailed to it.
“The US” is a committee of unequally disorganized and organized politicized committees, and some groups of people make worse decisions than other groups of people.
“The US” absolutely is fascist, and absolutely is not, since that term incorporates disparate elements and contexts.
And then you imply America never should have fought the revolutionary war since England and America had such a totally rad sense of “community”. This is the least defensible and most absurd part of your defeatist rant.
You’re implying America never should have claimed the legitimacy of equal representation under the law, so…what?
The US could end up as the largest colony under an exploited and exploitative authoritarian monarchy?
Nobody is claiming that authoritarianism is the opposite of democracy or that they cancel each other out.
Hey look, the sand and the ocean, they…cancel each other out? No, they’re discrete elements in a system.
Ae you assuming that the ultra-conservative facebook minority are the voice of the general US popular majority?
And for goodness sake, why are you railing against the “bourgeoisie”? Do people understand that means “middle class”? “Bourgeoisie” is
The problem of US capitalism is not the responsibility of middle class business owners, it is literally provably the most wealthy people in the entire country avoiding taxes and civic responsibility, a fraction of the top fraction of assholes.
To imply the best craigslist independent sofa seller in Minnesota is part of the capitalist problem is absurd.
American exceptionalism - a tractable cultural irritation; people who love grilling hot dogs on the 4th of July didn’t organize project Condor(but they’re still irritating).
American institutional racism - a tractable and evolving national guilt. BLM.
The continuing genocide of native americans - the least tractable issue you haven’t addressed to the extent it deserves.
The US is not an authoritarian state and it doesn’t matter if you’re sorry, all anyone can do is try to make things better by voting, being elected into office and introducing legislation that changes the unjust conditions crippling people’s lives, or move abroad 330 days out of the year so that you can avoid paying taxes and contributing to the military industrial complex.
The first step in making a change though, is avoiding embracing your sale of “inevitability”.
Embracing a false inevitability is simple but not easy because you don’t have to make any significant changes in your life but you do have to repeatedly, implausibly and insistently push back against prejudice and injustice.
I don’t have the capacity to respond in the full reddit way, but I will note that this project was born out of a desire to separate out what specifically authoritarianism even means in the context of american exceptionalism, its not something tertiary or able to be ignored, the belief that the United States is the best country in the world, is the foundation of what american was and what it is. This belief predicates the evidence used to justify it. It is,… fuck man, its fully and literally what inspired the nazis. the fasci hang on the wall in the chamber of gods sake. I’m not calling the US fascist, I very specifically said its not, yet. What I want to know is why every stoic american I bring this basic ass, 3rd grade history level awareness of a set of moral contractions, assertion to is trying to shout it down or cover it up. yal engage in a constant rhetorical pivot that is visibly the result of propaganda damaging the capacity for logic. The first step to avoiding “inevitability thinking” or whatever tf youre trying to say, is an honest and frank awareness and open assessment of where we are and the trajectory of the historical context as a whole. edit: -4 reading comprehension just out the gate to say im calling the US fascist. frfr i should have checked out then.
I agree that the first step is avoiding embracing inevitability is honesty and critical reasoning, and I do believe that you feel the same way.
What your comment reads like, however, is that people should accept how terrible things are, not examine things too closely, and get really upset at how things will never change.
Which, by virtue of your answer, I don’t think you agree is the best course of action.
Also, which project are you referring to in the first sentence? I’m sorry if I missed that.
im writing a book, and I started a social media campaign? thing around it over the last year or 2, depending on when we start counting. Its a personal project i have worked on for some time. I picked it up while studying for a history degree. idk man, it kind of feels like you’re just pushing back at like, the concept of powerlessness, can’t help with that. Yea, I write like a lunatic. I’m upset. Ive dedicated a chunk of my life to finding the truth on this and nobody cares. The people who agree with me take it as a basic assertion of reality that everyone grew out of as an indignant child, and most else seem to consider it a spear leveled against the heart of america.
Oh. Did you mention the book or the campaign?
It feels like you’re writing these comments as though your book and social media campaign are a known quantity, but they aren’t in your post right?
Or in the cross post?
I’m pushing back at the implied implacable powerlessness, which doesn’t seem accurate since Trump was voted out in 2020 despite political and practical conniving and treason, which I see as a very potent example of the power of majority will.
I agree that institutions and certain states are more racist than other states, but that prejudice is not impossible to overcome.
There was a transgender ban on the military, Trump was voted out, Biden overturned the transgender ban in the military, as a salient example.
I’m sure some of the things you’re talking about are correct and all of the issues you’ve talked about are certainly valid to be angry about, but you need to provide better solutions with your outrage, or you aren’t going to galvanize practical support in the way I am hearing you want to.
Maybe the critical supplements I’m talking about are in another post I missed?
I’m happy to explain. I opened a new group in lemmy for the first time yesterday. Thats where the crosspost is from, and at time of writing it is still over there on the trending bar for the homepage. Book, isn’t done yet, and I haven’t felt the need to set up the infrastructure to start taking anyones money, because no one has offered(though when I do it will be a set-your-own-price ebook preorder)(maybe a crowdsourced hardback edition or something if we’re feeling fancy)(tho i was just counting on paying for a paperback one myself then doing the ebook thing). So this is a crosspost of the introductory post for the new https://lemmy.world/c/usauthoritarianism community.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world
thank
Oh. Okay. I went to the community, and now I understand where you’re coming from.
You should probably include some minimum background for cross posts since out of context and with your self-admittedly extremely enthusiastic style of writing, I didn’t understand where you were coming from.
I agree there is a problem with authoritarianism in the United States, but I must argue the premise that the US is inherently and especially intractably authoritarian.
It’s simply too complex an organism to paint in such broad measures without context or circumstantial boundaries.
That said, I think a community about US authoritarianism is a great idea and wish you the best.
Cool, I will certainly keep that in mind. Very new to the platform.
I sure hope you are right about that.
aw thanks :)
Is that a Stormtrooper with a double chin?
(1) why keep apologizing? It is either true or it is not, and either way does that really help soften the blow, especially after the first time? Well, anyway, kudos for attempting to be gentle at least.
(2) this seems biased in some places - e.g. are there countries where white supremacy does NOT appear among some portion of its populace? Although I guess you mean it being institutionalized, and so widely spread. But even there, it seems not alone in that? Especially if the races involved do not have to remain fixed across the comparison.
(3) what America seems to absolutely excel at, imho, is lying to itself. Especially the Midwest - e.g. the East and West know about such stuff and try to fight it, the South knows and just doesn’t allow talking about it at all, but people in the Midwest (for anyone wondering why these terms, e.g. no “North”, it has to do with its history, expanding from the 13 colonies westward, and now the terms depict cultural zones rather than geographic ones) have drunk the coolaid and seem to honestly believe that e.g. racism is a thing of the past - or at least like the South they would prefer that people not talk about it. However, this too was not an “America first” issue, itself having been inherited from England when it broke away. The thing is, England - itself a monarchy at that time - grew up afterwards (somewhat, see e.g. Brexit), and the USA grew up too, but yeah still remains deeply scarred by its past, and more especially by its continued present.
One example is how America sent a man to the moon first. While a significant accomplishment, the USA was not the first in space, nor has it showed much interest in the moon since then, especially lately when all the “firsts” there are being made by China and India, and the USA has actively given up rights to moon territories in exchange for deep-sea oil drilling rights. So… a half-point then towards its credit, or more like a full one but historical rather than modern?
Another example is nuclear fission technology, which is widely known to have been developed in the USA, ofc, but by German scientists who were fleeing the fascists at the time. This one actually deserves far more than just half a point though, imho, b/c while America did not put in the investment to develop the educational infrastructure that would have led to this discovery on its own, it did capitalize (a good choice of wording?:-D) on it, and also the USA is where those scientists chose to go (okay so… the latter may have had large geographic reasons behind it as well, as in the USA was not being actively bombed by Germany like the UK was, at the time). Similarly, one school of thought is that this is how the USA originally got its start in its industrial revolution, by the theft of many architectural plans taken from England. In contrast to those kinds of starts though - and here my knowledge is shaky so take this next part with a much more heavy grain of salt - the USA seems to not be keeping up with most other other nuclear-related technology developments since then, involving fusion (except perhaps that recent discovery that might have single-handedly reversed that whole course? so I dunno).
Computers, on the other hand, represent a full, solid, and MAJOR point towards the credit of the USA, right? As well as, for better or worse, the development of the internet (officially at least, it started in Universities within the USA, though that may have just been the modern form using packets, with some signal-passing having happened elsewhere first, and yet even then the first telegraph signals were passed in the USA, so at any rate this seems a solid point rather than a stretch).
So anyway, it is not all lies and smoke and mirrors - lately it seems that way, and ngl if Trump wins the USA may legitimately join with Russia or at least stop opposing the ongoing invasion of Ukraine, which would free Russia up to start building itself back up in order to continue its expansionist agenda. So the USA at the very best can be said to be “unstable”, and an “unreliable ally”, but with a MAJOR caveat that corporate interests are starting to become more powerful than actual nations, in recent years. So BUSINESS arrangements are likely to remain solid, even if government ones can be reversed at the drop of a hat. This too is something inherited from England/UK, and the rest of the World, but the USA definitely has drunk the coolaid on that, to the point where like if Apple or Google were to pick one political party, the other would not have much chance and may quickly die out.
But don’t miss out on the flowers or the forest for the sake of examining the trees: the white supremacy angle is only one small piece of this much larger puzzle, that has tentacles EVERYWHERE, world-wide even, and it is not only racists that support the authoritarian regime - there are other parts of that too.
Btw I want to give a shout-out to a tremendously awesome resource: Crash Course US History, and also many issues are discussed at a deeper level in the Crash Course World History, e.g. an episode on Capitalism and Socialism, and 19th-century Imperialism, multiple episodes on Globalization, etc.
i adore john green edit: thank you for the feedback. there is a method to this. 1 ofc ofc, its very simple. im not actually apologizing I am asking people not to yell at me. 2 100% 100% I hate the government. When I see visions of hell it is full of police. Personally, don’t really see the issue. Sure, you gotta double check with other people about some things just to make sure you’re not accidentally making stuff up, but in generally id really just say; yea. I know. people should believe in the arguments they make. 3 ooh wow thats interesting. I didn’t know that about the midwest. Though, I have been to Minneapolis and that city is awful. Im definitely interested in knowing what really happened. Its definitely not made up, that keeps coming up, always good to reaffirm, the US is definitely not totalitarian. I have found what this project is in the spaces around reframing the facts that we do know. So the real big one is: forced labor, and the threat of imprisonment and forced labor have been a virtually constant fact of life for black men, the entire time, to the modern day. <<Theres a lot of elements going on in that assertion but the basic one is the continuity of what that actually looks like to someone on the ground. moment to moment, when the systems were implemented. seriously, you put it on a timeline and its plain as day: the US runs on foundation set by forced labor. Slave codes => Jim Crow, vagrancy laws and prisoner sale => modern mass incarceration and more than a million workers rented for pennies to supplement every industry from agriculture and firefighting to manufacturing and fast food. Its how america works. I really just do not buy into the neoliberal talking point that technology or culture make any of this magically okay, and I fully do not care about the comparably sized but significantly weaker other countries around the world who are basically just grappling with their own versions of this dilemma. Yea, sure, theyll be the ones on the up if and when the US keeps fumbling its lead. That is not what, “being a threat”, means. Just because we changed the name on the tin from department of war to department of defense does not actually mean that the things that it does aren’t acts of war and provocation and instead magically acts of reasonable defense. That’s not how any of this works. It just means you have non native english speakers saying that they hate freedom. I feel like im losing my mind. you can see this in history. states do this all the time. you can’t change reality by changing language you just change the language.