• fukhueson@lemmy.worldOP
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    1 year ago

    FTA:

    Wages Are Rising, Good for Workers, But Not So Much as to Fuel Inflation

    Average hourly earnings grew at a 4.1% annual rate in March, down from 4.5% at the start of the year. With consumer inflation currently 3.2% annually, that means workers are seeing gains in real income.

    “The reduced pace of wage gains will alleviate some concerns of reignited inflation driven in part by the strong labor market,” said Nick Bunker, director, North American research at Indeed. “And while it has slowed, wage growth remains faster than the pace of inflation, insulating workers from undue harm.”

    It does not seem like you’re addressing what the article says about the labor market at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

    The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the “motte”) and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the “bailey”). The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, insists that only the more modest position is being advanced. Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey has not been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte) or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte).

    Also, for a third time, can you specifically, with reliable sources, identify the items you feel are “padded” in the article?

    • thisorthatorwhatever@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Let’s say you’re 30 and looking to buy a house;

      If your wage was $50,000, and went up by 5% you now make $52,500

      If a house cost $500,000 and went up by 3.1% it now costs %515,500

      So over the last few months, there has been little difference in a person’s situation, not something that they’ll feel.

      Now go back 4 years.

      If your wage was $50,000 in 2020, and over 4 years increased by 15%

      If a house was $300,000 in 2020, and over 4 years rose to $500,000

      The minor rise in wages vs. inflation, over the last year is meaningless.

      • fukhueson@lemmy.worldOP
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        1 year ago

        So you admit, contrary to what you said before, that wages aren’t stagnant. I see that in your opinion this is meaningless (I see no reliable sources included other than your personal opinion), however, the article, with data, directly refutes this notion that there is no meaningful movement in wages. Again, this is a motte and bailey argument.

        Motte: vague assertions about the economy

        Bailey: data in the article is “padded”

        I don’t see anything informative or constructive about this conversation, especially considering you have abandoned defending your assertion that the numbers in the article are somehow “padded.”

        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pad

        2: to expand or increase especially with needless, misleading, or fraudulent matter

        I won’t be continuing this discussion with you.

        • thisorthatorwhatever@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’m a different poster, trying to bring in light to argument, about how people feel right now. Over the last 4 years housing has risen dramatically over wages. Small changes in wages to inflation are meaningless to people that remember housing costs of 4 years ago.

          • fukhueson@lemmy.worldOP
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            1 year ago

            This is an (unsourced) opinion to say this is meaningless, and the article describes the meaningfulness of worker wage increases.

            • thisorthatorwhatever@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Nowhere in the article is meaningfulness to worker mentioned, just statistics. Statistics by themselves have little meaning, until they are interpreted and put into context. For example .5% change in employment over the course of a year for a specific segment of the population is not meaningful without greater context. If employment for women changed by .5% over a year, but now housing is completely unaffordable, that doesn’t mean that people have increased happiness by .5% . Interpretation is needed.

              • fukhueson@lemmy.worldOP
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                1 year ago

                The article in fact does elaborate on the wage increases, as I’ve quoted. The choice you make to decide that “meaningfulness” only involves narrow comparisons to housing prices is personal, as well to call the wage increases the article talks about as meaningless. That is a trite and uninformed view that wholly ignores those who benefit from increased wages (maybe to pay for increases in housing and other things?). Should wages be stagnant (as the other user tried to say) then I feel that would also be meaningful.

                These are not statistics in a vacuum. That is grossly misinterpreting the article, that is very clear on it’s assertions. I would hope that you could find a reliable source that argues that wage increases are meaningless to drive that point home as hard as you two are attempting to do.

                • thisorthatorwhatever@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  to call the wage increases the article talks about as meaningless. That is a trite

                  Since the start of the pandemic wages have grown a few percentage points, housing costs have almost doubled. An order of magnitude difference…so yes the term trite is reasonable.

                  • fukhueson@lemmy.worldOP
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                    1 year ago

                    In reference to your unsourced personal opinion, yes, trite is accurate when compared with actual data. And as long as we’re dealing with unsourced personal opinions with no real data to back up the “meaninglessness” of wage increases (never mind the rest of the article), I don’t see much value coming from this conversation.