The right is circulating a pair of graphs,
1 is showing the average ( skewed, of course, by the richest ) income, for the time in Trump’s presidency,
vs the time in Biden’s
the other is showing the same 2 graphs, but adjusted for inflation … and it’s significantly worse in Biden’s presidency.
( I hold that the real disinformation is pretending that income-vs-cost-of-living somehow tracks economic policy realtime … there’s a delay, for some effects that delay is years, like Milei’s eradicating of the Ministry of Education “for the economy” is a bullet-in-the-head for future advanced-economy participation, but … this pair of graphs does highlight a significant fact:
you cannot ignore inflation when claiming that the wealth of the average person is better, because wealth is only in relation to costs.
Period. )
But milei hasn’t eradicated the ministry of education. Why do you spread misinformation?
https://www.as-coa.org/articles/explainer-whos-who-javier-mileis-cabinet
“Milei’s cabinet is smaller than usual, fulfilling his pledge to shrink the number of ministries. There were 18 ministries; now there are nine. The ministries of education; labor, employment, and social security; and social development are all now the ministry of human capital.”
I would call downsizing it to the point of irrelevancy and combining it with 4 other ministries under a new name does constitute eradication.
Being absorbed by another ministry does not by any means implies that it has been ERADICATED. At most it became a secretary or sub secretary, but not gone.
You are spreading misinformation
Because everything costs so fucking much that the “economy” doesn’t represent their daily experience
How many billions did Kroger make this quarter???
“Stop trusting your lying eyes and trust my worthless spreadsheets instead.”
Because everyone except the wealthy are struggling to pay their bills bootlicker
And obviously trump is the better solution, crayon eater? Two things can be true at the same time: it sucks for regular people but it sucks less now than in 2019.
No one can undo years of economic turbulence in three years. Everyone feels like they’re being gaslit because they are. The patient will bleed out before you finish applying the first bandaid.
As long as private shareholders are having record quarterly earnings, almost all economists, hired by wealthy organizations largely to push the narrative that benefits those organizations, will of course declare victory.
Economists also generally defend our “free market” rigged crony capitalism as the only way too. They’re literally the priesthood of this grift.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rent-homelessness-harvard-report-center-for-housing-studies/
The homelessness epidemic is getting worse. Our people are dying in the streets in record numbers, please, go down to your nearest homeless tent city in every major population center in the US and tell them they’re being dramatic.
This economy no longer cares about customers or employees. The Reagan/Kemp grift eviscerated the customers first, employees second, investors last model. Now it’s private shareholders first and only demanding companies sabotage their long term future to goose their next quarter with layoffs, anticompetitive behaviors, and tax cheats.
Capitalism is eating its own tail having conquered the monopoly board and having no more meaningful new markets left to metastasize/exploit.
There needs to be laws passed that change the structure of “fiduciaries”
Companies should exist for their employees first, customers second, and then shareholders, in that order. Pay the people creating the product/service as much as possible, put out the best possible product/service at the most competitive rate possible, and if there’s anything left over the shareholders get their cut.
Ironically, if corporations actually did this, they’d likely have plenty of success. It’s just mind boggling that the lazy fuckers pushing numbers around on a computer screen are the ones considered fiduciaries
There is such a business structure. It’s called a worker co-operative. They’re pretty common in some areas (e.g. grocery) where they are able to compete with and even win against traditionally-owned grocery store chains. For example, one of the largest grocery co-operatives in the US, WinCo foods, competes with and actually beats the likes of Walmart and Kroger (called Fred Meyer here) in the price department. They do have some outside investment (IIRC), but the stores are mostly owned by the employees that work there.
I think we ought to encourage these types of businesses through extremely favourable tax treatment. I’m talking a 0% tax rate on dividends paid by co-operatives to workers. At the same time, it’s understandable that most people start businesses for personal profit, which drives the creation of most businesses, so I think a hybrid system wherein the owner starts with a maximum of 50% equity in the company is fair, and the rest is owned by the workers. Imposing an expiration on the owner’s shares (say, 50 years?) would mean that after the founders die, the entire company will be owned by the workers, while not extinguishing the motivation for people to establish businesses in the first place.
The economy means rich peoples yaght money.
I’ll believe it when I stop getting only rejection letters for entry level jobs.
I really don’t like that the sources on this article are missing.
Sure, that’s a lot of money for the wealthy who control 93% of stock, but it’s also tens of millions of Americans who will have a more comfortable and secure retirement. In fact, the number of Americans who have over $1 million in their retirement accounts grew by 20% in the last quarter of 2023.
Fine and dandy, except that half of Americans don’t have a retirement account. Or 47% of Americans.
So while retirement indexes are up, 1:2 people are not going to see that.
Inflation eased slightly in April — the first time this year that has happened. Overall inflation edged down to 3.4% and slipped to 3.6% when you exclude food and energy costs. (food expected to rise by an additional 2.2%)
Good to see the brakes are working. But just remember that not everyone goes out to by a car or house on a twice-a-week basis. But everyone does with the grocery store. Which in Biden’s defense, he has started trying to pull back.
Though effort =/= job done.
Surely there are some numbers we could look at every day besides the stock market numbers. Like couldn’t we have Real Income and/or Purchasing Power right next to the DOW and the S&P? Or how about instead of the Dow and S&P since, like you said - most Americans lives don’t change by the changes in the stock market.
Rich people’s money is thriving under Biden. So why don’t Americans believe it?
Oh, we do, we just don’t like what’s happening for the rest of us.
“Please, I can’t afford food or housing”
Media outlets:
Economy doing great!!! Inflation down and stocks up!!!
“Okay, I guess I’ll just fucking die then”
Only rich people and corporations are doing well.
EVERYONE ELSE is in a fucking recession…
A majority of Americans say that their own personal finances are doing well, and even when the question is expanded to their whole state, voters say the economy has improved.
Then from the source itself:
60% said their financial situation is good or excellent.
Read your own source, it is a year old, and 51% said the economy was getting worse. Only like 30% said it was good or excellent…
Damn, I didn’t even realize OP’s article was sourcing a 2023 poll. Well here are the updated numbers for 2024:
Exactly half (50%) say their personal financial situation is excellent or good
U.S. adults scored a 48.92 on our financial well-being scale
So overall the numbers haven’t changed much since 2023 on how people see their own personal finances. Your point that, despite that, they still think the economy is getting worse just reiterates what the article is saying. For some people their finances are bad and they think things are getting worse. For some people their finances are good ant they think things are getting better. But strangely, for some people their finances are good but they still think things are getting worse. Or, to put it another way, some people think they’re in good shape, but the economy is in bad shape, which is a pretty weird disconnect. And the number of people in that last category is not small.
They’re asking the wrong question. The question should be who the economy is thriving for? The answer to that question will tell you everything you need to know.
My wife and I are making more money than we ever have before. I got a raise and she got a new job that pays more than her old one. We’re solidly on the high side of middle class. Sure, inflation pinched a bit of those gains, and it sucks that new and used cars are so ridiculously expensive, but both of ours are paid off so we’ll just keep driving them. It’s not all doom and gloom out there right now.
Counter argument. I have also never made this much money. Neither has my boyfriend. We work at a hospital and make decent money. In Oct 2020 we were finally able to get our own apartment. We then moved back in with our old roommate last year. Because we were getting close to being homeless.
People were warning up about the disappearing middle class decades ago. I remember hearing about it in the 90s. And here we are. The wage gap between the top and the bottom has only widened.
How is that in any way a counter argument?
Person 1: Here’s a thing about the economy
Person 2: My argument is that I am doing fine, so it is fine
Person 3: I would counter that by saying I am not doing fine, so by Person 2’s logic, it is not doing fine, this proving it is not a good argument
Adult conversations aren’t for everyone
Amazing that you couldn’t even paraphrase two of three arguments correctly.
Is English not your first language?
Sorry you can’t read
Removed, civility.
Good one! You really got me there!
🙄🥱
You’re reinforcing my point. The economy has improved for people who were already well off. The people on the low side are getting pinched even harder.
No, I’m not. You have no idea what our finances looked like just a year ago, but it’s clear you also don’t care. You’ve decided you only want evidence that agrees with you.
You’ve decided you only want evidence that agrees with you.
A single anecdote is not evidence.
The statistics of this very article are the evidence. It’s right there in black and white!
A majority of Americans say that their own personal finances are doing well, and even when the question is expanded to their whole state, voters say the economy has improved.
You countered by dismissing it, so I met you where you wanted to be. But even that wasn’t enough to dig you out of your preconceived belief. Carry on with your circle jerk.
s/the economy/rich people's money/i
Groceries. Are. Still. High. Where is the confusion???
Because grocery prices aren’t high because the economy is doing poorly. We are being price gouged by grocery cartels.
You are being fooled into blaming Biden for what CEOs are doing to you.
Bidens only response is asking them to stop price gouging then doing nothing when they don’t stop screwing Americans
why do people think nothing has been done?
Right. Fuck, better go back to trump because Biden didn’t solve it.
Get the Mexicages back out, remove presidential term limits, let’s do a day ™ of fascism and put anyone who trump owes money back in charge!
I’m not saying this is your perspective but this is the kind of stupid in reading here that starts from the same perspective.
Pretending that Biden / Democrats don’t have any power to even attempt to address this in even the most mild way is plain stupid.
And please don’t reply with a “you think Biden has the power unilaterally force them to lower their prices?!”
No, I don’t.
But what I DO think is that power of the bully pulpit of the highest office in the land allows the president to openly target and vilify (righteously I might add) companies and even individual CEOs that are doing things like this and turn the public ire against them in a focused manner.
Additionally, Democrats can do things in a Machiavellian manner that would make life a fucking nightmare for some of these people. Just get the IRS to go after some of these CEOs. Investigate them for this price gouging that we know that they’re doing. Suspend their business licenses.
Have the FDA tell them they’re not authorized to sell milk anymore or some shit I don’t fucking care.
Don’t tell me the Supreme Court’s gonna overturn it because I don’t care. In the meantime that they hadn’t overturned it we get wins and even if the Supreme Court does overturn it it’s more ammunition to point and say “look at what they’re taking away from us! We’re trying to fix things, and these Republicans in office keep undoing what would help make your lives better!”
Instead, they do nothing and say “well we couldn’t do that even if we wanted to because the Republicans would stop us” and then when you get angry and complain they say “oh well what do you want Trump to be in office instead?!”
This fucking handwaving shit has got to stop or Trump is going to fucking win again. Jesus Christ. Fucking forgive medical debt. Fucking forgive student loans. Just do some sweeping shit. I don’t care if everyone’s going to complain about the legality of it. Push the limits of your power. Trump did it and got away with it and it was evil shit like the Muslim travel ban.
AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO DO SOME GOOD WITH THE POWER YOU HAVE TO SHOW US THAT YOU ARE TRYING!
Agreed.
It is, in fact, time to stop being the bigger person and start being the more effective person. I don’t care if we set an example, let’s get some shit done.
Democrats are already moving in the direction you want them to, but I’m sure you have a great excuse as to why they aren’t doing enough.
https://time.com/6977026/democrats-biden-executive-authority-grocery-prices/
They could address stagnant wages in the midst of record inflation. What’s minimum wage again?
Furthermore, wage growth has been beating inflation for the most recent 12 months.
Man, the way they calculated this statistic is so misleading, and counter intuitive to the claim it’s ridiculous.
The only reason for “real wage growth” is shown as outpacing inflation is because they aren’t counting people who lost their job because of COVID as a loss of income, but as someone exiting the job market.
Basically “wages” increased because the majority of people who lost their jobs were low income earners, leaving more white collar jobs to represent wage earnings.
Source?
Doing enough should be dragging price gouging executives through the street. But I guess wagging a finger at them will definitely make my grocery bill go down🤷🏼♂️
