There’s only so much incessant bitching I can hear about dark patterns, intrusive automatic updates, shoehorned-in and useless AI, zero user choice, planned obsolesence, and being blindsided by enshittification before I say “just try using the free thing that doesn’t have those problems”.
“I’ve tried nothing, and I’m all out of ideas.” If you have to for work or something, though, I totally get it and encourage the bitching.
I hear you, but in a lot of these cases the people with complaints are not competent. Anyone who has worked helpdesk or adjacent has seen boatloads of 'em. Imagine I’m an oldie or fool or even grew up without electrical power and I barely know how a computer works. I don’t really want to work with them and I think turning the monitor on and off is a reboot. Windows is horrible with all this bloat and AI and so much confusing shit but usability-wise it makes some sense I guess. I could do with a change but I can’t do anything confusing or outside of my limited range. I’m probably not installing a good distro. I am not partitioning a drive. I am not creating a bootable USB. What do I do?
The only option here is to have them go out on a limb and buy a machine online pre-installed with Linux or have someone else set it up, right?
Not literally, of course. But if you don’t have the baseline level of skill to exist in a technological society without being absolutely reamed by predatory corporations and other scammers and also refuse help to learn how to defend yourself, at some point that’s a “you” problem and you deserve to fucking lose.
No but genuinely I resonate with this answer so much. Imagine if you needed to pass a computer literacy test to own any sort of “smart” device/computer and needed a license to operate it. It would eliminate so many scam call centers and would make so many IT teams work load decrease 10x. Imagine the complete LACK of mis/disinformation on the internet. Sometimes i wish that were the world we were in.
While I agree with the “fuck 'em” attitude to a certain extent I’m not sure that should apply to the entire gradient of differently abled. A lot of people who are mentally infirm have to continue to work in this hellscape and may have real roadblocks preventing learning about 'puters and the interweb and there’s not a whole lot of resources anyway for people who don’t live in the city. But yeah I don’t expect a magic answer. Your GIF might actually be the best way haha.
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it “trying nothing” when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren’t tech savvy at all, “Ain’t nobody got the time for that!” is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It’s like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don’t have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain’t nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it’s the least “techie” OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about “needing to take courses” was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don’t like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
You don’t have to know much. It’d be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it’s not a whole as master class or anything.
Accessibility point aside, just because I can’t speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don’t fix their own shit on Linux aren’t fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don’t do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don’t troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don’t even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That’s what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that’s why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn’t ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it’s my job to do it, that’s my main driver for using Linux is so I don’t feel like I’m at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I’m pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn’t ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they’re not ready for? They’ll complain either way when shit doesn’t work.
They’re complaining about very specific behaviors of windows that do not exist in Linux, and our argument is about whether or not the OSes function well enough for everyday use.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They’re out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you’re using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism’t working.
There’s only so much incessant bitching I can hear about dark patterns, intrusive automatic updates, shoehorned-in and useless AI, zero user choice, planned obsolesence, and being blindsided by enshittification before I say “just try using the free thing that doesn’t have those problems”.
“I’ve tried nothing, and I’m all out of ideas.” If you have to for work or something, though, I totally get it and encourage the bitching.
I hear you, but in a lot of these cases the people with complaints are not competent. Anyone who has worked helpdesk or adjacent has seen boatloads of 'em. Imagine I’m an oldie or fool or even grew up without electrical power and I barely know how a computer works. I don’t really want to work with them and I think turning the monitor on and off is a reboot. Windows is horrible with all this bloat and AI and so much confusing shit but usability-wise it makes some sense I guess. I could do with a change but I can’t do anything confusing or outside of my limited range. I’m probably not installing a good distro. I am not partitioning a drive. I am not creating a bootable USB. What do I do?
The only option here is to have them go out on a limb and buy a machine online pre-installed with Linux or have someone else set it up, right?
Not literally, of course. But if you don’t have the baseline level of skill to exist in a technological society without being absolutely reamed by predatory corporations and other scammers and also refuse help to learn how to defend yourself, at some point that’s a “you” problem and you deserve to fucking lose.
No but genuinely I resonate with this answer so much. Imagine if you needed to pass a computer literacy test to own any sort of “smart” device/computer and needed a license to operate it. It would eliminate so many scam call centers and would make so many IT teams work load decrease 10x. Imagine the complete LACK of mis/disinformation on the internet. Sometimes i wish that were the world we were in.
While I agree with the “fuck 'em” attitude to a certain extent I’m not sure that should apply to the entire gradient of differently abled. A lot of people who are mentally infirm have to continue to work in this hellscape and may have real roadblocks preventing learning about 'puters and the interweb and there’s not a whole lot of resources anyway for people who don’t live in the city. But yeah I don’t expect a magic answer. Your GIF might actually be the best way haha.
Boomerism is not a mental illness they just don’t understand computers
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it “trying nothing” when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren’t tech savvy at all, “Ain’t nobody got the time for that!” is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It’s like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don’t have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain’t nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
Not defending the behavior in question, but Linux nowadays is MUCH simpler to understand than Windows or MacOS. It is by far the easiest operating system to change to, and the easiest to learn if you are somehow not familiar with any. From a user standpoint it’s the least “techie” OS now (aside from mobile OS of course).
What you describe about “needing to take courses” was true ten years ago, it was probably true three years ago. It is just simply not true now.
I use Arch as my daily driver and it is absurd how easy it is to use.
Updating all drivers and programs and the system updates in one command is so awesome and convenient.
yayIn 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don’t like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
You don’t have to know much. It’d be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it’s not a whole as master class or anything.
https://lemmy.world/post/37909826/20160181
Accessibility point aside, just because I can’t speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don’t fix their own shit on Linux aren’t fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don’t do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don’t troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don’t even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That’s what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that’s why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn’t ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it’s my job to do it, that’s my main driver for using Linux is so I don’t feel like I’m at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I’m pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn’t ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they’re not ready for? They’ll complain either way when shit doesn’t work.
They’re complaining about very specific behaviors of windows that do not exist in Linux, and our argument is about whether or not the OSes function well enough for everyday use.
I feel like so many people are basing their opinion of Linux on outdated ideas of what it can and can’t do.
There are distros that are incredibly fucking simple and stable. Easier and faster to set up than Windows.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They’re out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you’re using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism’t working.
I do not accept this idea that people are so unskilled at computers they can’t install Linux, and are so immutably so they can’t get better.
Like yeah sometimes you have to ask for help or watch a YouTube video. That shit’s free and right there.
They definitely exist, but it feels like stubbornness at that point. It absolutely isn’t a lack of capability, it’s a lack of willingness.
Getting around people’s lack of willingness is the only way the year of the linux desktop will ever happen.
Like with global warming, people can just choose not to, you know.
It’s learned helplessness