- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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they could have incorporated similar tech to teach children better. or we could figure out why class is so boring when the subjects can be so interesting.
but nooo lets ban phones instead because we want things to stay like they were 40 years ago.
LOL good luck with that guys
Good. We already did that here.
If you’re more worried about your kid at school getting shot than them getting distracted during their education, You might be the one living in a shit hole country.
I believe in educating kids to know how to ignore distractions. The phone will be there in every work/life situation and will be a tool used to get them further in their careers and life in general. It’s stupid to let them use them openly during class… It’s also stupid to make legislation about them. Notice we don’t have country wide dress codes for schools. Just legislation that says when such codes have gone to far. Banning students from having items they carry daily is just a stupid over abuse of power being instated for what reason? Failed parenting and failed educators?
You text during class you get told to stop, happens again you get detention/thrown out of class/sent to the dean and eventually thrown out of the school. Always was that way. No need for laws around it.
You text during class you get told to stop, happens again you get detention/thrown out of class/sent to the dean and eventually thrown out of the school. Always was that way. No need for laws around it.
It’s more complicated. Teachers can’t take away the phone because it’s an expensive piece of property and it opens all kinds of doors for the school being liable if it goes missing or gets broken. Not to mention if something does happen, the parents might sue the school.
And we aren’t talking about mere distractions, but things designed to keep kids addicted to them. You’re pitting school teachers and admins trying to get kids to pay attention to something often found as boring, against billion dollar businesses pushing punping money into keeping and grabbing kid’s attention. Plus having kids miss school because of a cell phone just doesn’t make sense, especially if the parents are pushing the kid to bring it.
The law just makes it clear and reduces liability for the school, and it’s better for kids.
I wish the world were the way our describe it, and that would work. But it doesn’t.
You pretty obviously don’t know what you’re talking about, almost every class my children have been in for middle school and high school had the children commit to not using their smartphone and sent home a slip to be signed by parents acknowledging that the phones will be taken away and have to be picked up by a parent if they become a distraction for the student. They include similar language in the school student handbook as well.
This law is just ridiculous authoritative nonsense, being used to score a victory for political marketing purposes.
Agreements and enforcement are two different things. Have you talked to any teachers about how this plays out?
Teachers
can’tshouldn’t take away the phone because it’s an expensive piece of property and … the schoolbeingis liable… Not to mention if something does happen, the parentsmightshould sue the school. The law just makesit clearthis legal and reduces liability for the school, andit’s better foras usual kids are told it’s better for them to be controlled and lack agency.FTFY.
things designed to keep kids addicted to them
You really think that’s what electronic engineers do?
Is she going to ban hats next? Put in a law telling students exactly how they can decorate their lockers?
Surely there are more pressing things to be legislated?
As someone who went through the NY public school system many years ago, I can confirm hats were/are hard banned. Like unless it was for religious reasons you really couldn’t even think about putting something on your head.
Cell phones were also banned in my youth but I guess times have changed?
Oh yes, but by the school. Not the law. We have elected positions specifically for figuring out how schools should teach children. Also top down negative mandates about clothes are already borderline abuses of power. We want laws preventing admins from going overboard, not mega bans in state law.
The research showing the impact of cellphones during class outweighs an individual’s opinion. This has nothing to do with fashion and can’t be compared to hats or locker decorations.
It’s no different than sleeping through class or just doodling and ignoring the teacher. If the kid can’t not have their phone out then they get banished to the back of the class. If they play noise they get sent to the office, just like disruptive kids in every generation.
Let’s give them a suspension, send them to their lead painted home with a pack of smokes, just like every generation.
Okay Mr modest proposal.
It’s no different than sleeping through class or just doodling and ignoring the teacher.
And there you have it folks, doodling is the same as these social media apps designed to be addictive that also lead to all kinds of bullying and social anxieties and harassment.
I’m sorry, you think banning smartphones at school is going to stop cyber bullying? Because bullies infamously follow the rules and kids are at school 24/7?
You said it was the same as doodling. I responded to that. All that other stuff you added was just fabricated in your own head.
Stop? No. But results so far have shown a decrease.
The research showing the impact of cellphones during class outweighs an individual’s opinion.
More broadly, any kind of in-class interruption can hurt academic performance. This same logic has been applied to dress codes, speech constraints (most famously Bong Hits for Jesus), and behavioral edicts.
But this wack-a-mole strategy of prohibitions isn’t championed because it is particularly effective. There’s always some new distraction in the classroom you can chase after next. The strategy is championed because its cheap. Banning cell phones has very little budgeted cost as a public policy. By contrast, reducing class sizes and providing more hands-on learning opportunities and hiring/retaining highly educated teachers has an enormous price tag.
Nevermind which strategy has a proven history of increased student performance. We just need to keep locking enormous pools of children in tiny windowless classrooms and throwing increasingly byzantine standardized tests at them, then chasing any student who produces a “distraction” from this mind-numbing educational policy.
Yes. It’s the children who are wrong.
Ontario has now passed two different bills banning cell phones in school. It’s a great distraction from actual problems. I fully expect we’ll pass a third in a few years if our provincial government is re-elected
Teachers don’t need a sheet of paper at a legislature somewhere to take away cellphones. They can do that already, and if the kids disobey a legislature won’t help. I assume no one is expecting kids to go to prison for having a cellphone
The key thing is that teachers can ban phones in their individual classrooms if the school permits it.
There are many schools in which the senior admin don’t institute phone bans (you’d be surprised how common this is).
Legislating it helps maintain consistency and parity between schools nation wide, which is important as it’s a quality of education issue, so the policy should be consistent across all schools.
I’m not from North America, but the situation is similar across most western democracies.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“I have seen these addictive algorithms pull in young people, literally capture them and make them prisoners in a space where they are cut off from human connection, social interaction and normal classroom activity,” she said.
The smartphone-ban bill will follow two others Hochul is pushing that outline measures to safeguard children’s privacy online and limit their access to certain features of social networks.
In New York, the bills have faced pushback from big tech, trade groups and other companies, which collectively spent more than $800,000 between October and March lobbying against one or both of them, according to public disclosure records.
This differs from other state-level bills across the country, which place some reliance on self-policing by tech companies to decide which features could be harmful by completing assessments of whether products are “reasonably likely” to be accessed by children.
“Meta itself admits its own parental controls aren’t widely used – they’re often confusing and frequently fail to work as intended,” said Sacha Haworth, executive director of the Tech Oversight Project, a policy advocacy organization.
The major social media firms have faced increasing scrutiny over harms against children, including sextortion scams, grooming by predators and worsening mental health.
The original article contains 922 words, the summary contains 199 words. Saved 78%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I don’t understand how a state governor can “introduce” a bill.
Isn’t that the legislature’s job?
Anyone can introduce a bill, including you. Only the legislature’s vote on it counts.
I’m torn on this. Allow them and let natural selection take its course, or force students to pay attention, which I would’ve hated as a kid.
This so government overreach. Let the teachers and school admin decide. There no need to get the state government involved.
Good idea. Its of the main reason why education today is faltering. Allowing too many screen in the class room is simply a bad idea. These kids have the no ability to stay focused in any way. They way they learn guarantees many will never learn to read without a screen and the internet. I see it often in my current job.
I very much think smartphones do not belong in the classroom.
That said, I also very much think that assault rifles don’t belong in schools. And until we can prevent that, we can’t really take away the only way for parents to figure out if their kid is dead or just traumatized.
You understand that a lot of communication in that scenario can, at worst, lead to crucial misinformation about what’s going on and, at best, is unnecessary, don’t you?
Obviously, these shootings happen, but the solution is not to arm each student with a cell phone, just as it sure as hell isn’t to arm each teacher with a firearm.
The detrimental effects of cell phone usage in the classroom are well documented and plain as day if you just walk into a high school or middle school lesson. Even with highly engaging teachers and lessons, there are kids who slip through the cracks because nobody can compete with the newest fad app designed to melt a child’s brain and possibly drain their parent’s bank accounts.
This move addresses a significant issue within our school system. Addressing gun violence in the US is a very complex issue that needs to be tackled through a lot of different fronts. Kids having smart phones in school will not address that issue.
Obviously, these shootings happen, but the solution is not to arm each student with a cell phone, just as it sure as hell isn’t to arm each teacher with a firearm.
You’re right. The solution is fucking gun control. Not isolating those kids out of fear that they might give the cops misinformation and there won’t e a safe space to play flappy bird while children are being executed.
So how about you shut the fuck up about how it is more important to isolate the kids than to protect them? Hmm?
Lol isolating kids? They’re at school… If someone needs to get information out, there are already channels of communication.
Hope you have a better day.
I think flip/dumb phones are still allowed with most smartphone bans, are you suggesting this one is different?
I think this is less about isolating kids than it is separating them from distracting and addictive apps.
Also it creates a class distinction in schools - some kids don’t have them causing them to be socially isolated
Personally I think the schools should be handing out locked down wifi phones to students without smart phones. But I don’t think any part of this is about isolating students.
Would you allow the children to have a cell phone in school so they can say goodbye to their parents before they are shot to death? Seems a fair concession vs the apparent need to prevent the kids from spreading misinformation about a gunman roaming the school.
At that point, take your kids out of school if you’re that worried about them being able to say goodbye.
During the 99.99999999% of the time the school isn’t being shot up, the goal is for the kids to learn. Even with as many school shootings as we have now, the odds of your kids being in one is still incredibly small. Way higher than it should be, but ensuring the kids are getting quality education is still the top priority on a day to day basis.
What’s with the fetishization of school shootings in this thread?
This whole argument is weird. Kids don’t need smart phones in school. Is your argument that we should let kids have smart phones so they can call their parents if there is ever a school shooting? Do you think every kid should be prepared for imminent death at all times in the classroom? What’s the actual argument?
I’m stating that smart phones are a net negative to any learning environment and there are already effective modes of communication within schools.
I was responding to the point being made that smartphones are a detriment during a school shooting due to students sharing misinformation.
I mean, you could get social media companies to turn posting off during school hours, that’d sure take the wind out of the sales of most of the most blatant things students do when they pull their phones out in class
Little derps get their news from that shit anyways, let’s treat it the same as the 24 hour news cycle crisis and just make the companies stop for the parts of the day where people need most to be focusing on other shit. No airwaves, no airwaves occupying everyone’s eyeballs and sending them into doomscroll mode.
Honestly that could be a pretty good gimmick for a new social media company in general, you can write, snap, record, photograph whatever, BUT all posts publish in the morning or evening “editions” and comments are open for 2 hours after (you can go back and comment on old posts), I feel like it could be an artificial scarcity thing, if people only have limited time when they can use the platform in a day, they’ll make the most of that time whenever they’re able.
Got it. Fuck the “little derps”. Their blood makes great gun lube, huh?
ANYTHING to prevent people from actually approaching the real problem of the mass availability of firearms that puts children in a situation where they need to be able to say goodbye to their parents before they are sacrificed to the altar of the AR-15.
Nobody’s talking about giving guns the Elizabeth Baathory skincare regime but you chief.
But sure, kids being restricted to call text and messaging during school hours is EXACTLY the same as just asking them to line up against the wall for the shooter.
Flip phones still exist.
Are increasingly unavailable on basically any real phone plan and effectively require a dedicated purchase. Rather than giving the kid yoru old motorola you kept in the drawer.
Also, as 9-11 and other “holy shit” moments taught us, having a wide range of ways to communicate with people when EVERYONE is trying to call or even text people (SMS is a best effort protocol for a reason) is important.
Again, if we actually care about the children? Stop fucking shooting them to death. Maybe then we can figure out why they don’t need to be constantly connected to everyone they know.
Imagine being unable to finance a sub-$100 purchase and having to pay for the entire thing in one go. Will the horrors never stop? Be better, America.
There’sa lot of options, it’s getting more popular, search for feature phones
Yeah a phone that can only calls 9-1-1 is basically a Uvdale special. It’s better for the kids to be able to teach the parents
A Light Phone or Light phone 2 is capable of doing literally everything you need from a smart phone without the bloat and distraction. It’s legitimate with most service providers as well.
There’s viable options out there that aren’t “flip phones”.
Light phones also cost 300-800 (!?!?!) USD and aren’t carried by phone providers who give people “a free upgrade” every few years.
Yes, there are the parents who buy their toddler a flagship iphone. The vast majority are just taking the phone they were totally going to recycle that has been living in the junk drawer for years and give it to their kid for emergencies and fortnite.
They can be used on each of the following carrier’s: AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon (except for prepaid plans and Number Share), Ting, Mint, US Mobile.
So, I’m not sure what you mean by providers who give “free upgrades”…
It’s cheaper than most smart phones and does everything you need it to do without games and social media.
The vast majority of phone providers (in the US at least, which is where this is pertinent) have heavily subsidized phones if you agree to an N-month contract. And while the price of that can come out worse, it is also a lot easier for underprivileged people to spend an extra few bucks a month for two years than to set aside that money to make the couple hundred dollar purchase (for better or for worse).
And if you are willing to actually talk to a CSR you can often get the price to pay off that phone completely negated. Which IS good if that phone plan is good for you.
To my knowledge, Light does not partner with any of the major carriers so that is not an option. So you are buying those phones, regardless.
The Internet loves to build this strawman of a first grader who has the latest top end iphone. And… some of those do exist. But mostly it is parents getting a phone either “for free” or actually for free because they agree to not leave Verizon or whatever for 2 years and giving the old one to their kid.
effectively require a dedicated purchase. Rather than giving the kid yoru old motorola you kept in the drawer.
Ah right, because smartphones don’t need to be purchased
And so do AR-15s.
The problem with this position is that your child being a victim of a school shooting is extremely rare. Phones are ubiquitous. You’re trading the risk of something that will likely not happen to any one student (and won’t really help anything anyway), for a near guaranteed risk of serious damage to many kids education.
I actually have a child, unlike some of the people downvoting you, and I agree with you. I’m not willing to watch my kid’s educational environment destroyed by smartphones all for the sake of some “but muh child” panic. My kid doesn’t even own a smartphone. Anyone want to tell me that I’m somehow risking their life? If there’s a shooter at their school, me knowing what’s happening in real time will not save their life.
As a footnote, the top commenter hinted that if someday we could solve the gun / danger thing, THEN we could remove smartphones. But the reality is that that panic will never be satisfied. There will never come a point when people say “I’m content that there are no dangers to my child during the day.”
Ban fucking phones in class. Maybe it’s just me living through my whole childhood without one just fine, but ffs people don’t even see how addicted to them we’ve become. Kids deserve a chance at at least a few years of life without that.
This wasn’t possible 10 years ago so why does it matter today?
Besides, the cops are just going to arrest you if you try to go in, they have to stand outside and let the shooter play themselves out shooting your kids before they’ll let anyone in.
You know there were smart phones in 2014 right?
Im 36 and i often forget that the 90s were about 20-30 years ago. I forget im not 20 sometimes, until i throw my back out.
If I had to guess, they meant to say something like 25 years ago.
Or not. Im not them, i dont know.
The 90’s were just last decade and there’s this exciting new politician running for president called Obama.
A lot of public school districts now provide laptops or Chromebooks to the students to use during class while doing… let’s say…minimal oversight at best.
So most of the same inappropriate garbage behaviors and distractions will just be offloaded from the personal phone to the school device.
https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2024/06/police-investigate-shooting-outside-garfield-high-school/
5 days ago. Glad they have their priorities straight.
Gross! Couldn’t even let schools decide, somehow it’s important to ban them state-wide? Piss off.
The state is responsible for the education of children. This absolutely falls within their scope.
A state wide mono-culture based on an unsolved cultural issue isn’t “education” it’s inherently heavy handed.
It also actively harms schools that may be trying to teach students how to use cell phones productively in their lives to help them solve problems rather than pretending as though they don’t exist.
How it’s handled in countries such as Norway or The Netherlands is that those kinds of classes are exempt from the ban. It’s not a hard issue to solve.
So that’s in this bill right?
Right?
Beats me, I don’t live in the US.
It’s not. This is boomer reactionary garbage. Right up there with video games causing crime.
Sure thing, bud. So far all the studies disagree with you, though.
Part of that is teaching people how to control their impulses and stay on task.
Your workspace isn’t going to have you hang your phone up on the wall somewhere when you come into work and have someone tell you “now is the time to use your phone.”
College isn’t going to do it either.
We also could take some queues that maybe this isn’t all as serious as we make it out to be. My high school back in the 2010s gave us a ton of busy work, insisted on making it effectively mandatory if you wanted a decent grade, didn’t let people go to the bathroom without asking permission and using a sign out sheet, insisted every second of every lesson was crucial, and was very strict about not pulling out your cell phone basically ever (kids still snuck texts here and there).
I see more merits for small children, but in general I’m strongly in favor of radical changes to how we approach education … because learning should be fun but is not for so many people … and we forget so much of what we’ve been “taught” anyways.
schools teach how to use cell phones
If you were serious, your country is in deep shit.
Ahh yes, hostile partial quoting to make my country seem unintelligent; welcome to my block list.
You can’t get/keep many jobs without one here, so it would make sense that being able to have/use one should be part of the education for said jobs.
I haven’t a job in ~7+ years that didn’t require 2 factor applications on personal devices to be able to access company resources such as email, elevated security accounts, VPN connections, etc.
Yes, education is important, and this would spare every single school the intense battle vs parents to do the right thing.
