During a recent episode of The Verge’s Decoder podcast, Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber shed some possible insight into the company’s view on one of its most important products. Saying that “the mouse built this house,” Faber shares the planning behind a Forever Mouse, a premium product that the company hopes will be the last you ever have to buy. There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.
For now, details on a Forever Mouse are thin, but you better believe there will be a catch. The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.
I hate this approach to business.
Coupling subscriptions with forced obscolecence is a nightmare. If HP made the best printer money could buy, using it with a subscription model would be a hard sell. But they make shit printers that die at the drop of a hat, so coupling them with a subscription is asinine.
Logitech makes a decent mouse, passable webcams, and shit keyboards.
Just in case anyone from Logitech ever reads this, I own 2 MX Verticals, an MX Ergo, and an MX Master 2S. I love them all, but I’d rather use an OEM bog standard Dell mouse than pay for a subscription.
I used to just buy Logitech when I needed something because it’s good quality and good value, they seem to be intent on moving away from both
The Logitech UltraX Flat was hands down the best keyboard I ever used in my life. Sadly after decades of use (with a ps/2 to usb adapter) at some point some key pressure sensors started failing, so I had to switch. But I swear if I ever see a new one on ebay, I’ll get it in a heartbeat.
The Logitech k120 is a worthy warrior. Id never get an expensive keyboard from them though
They don’t even make good mice technically because of planned obsolescence.
Their switches die, intentionally, long before the life time of any other components on their mice. And have for nearly 10 years now.
They way I got introduced to hardware as a service is that it was a solution to planned obsolescence.
In theory, a hardware subscription means that if you pay for X months of that hardware, you gonna get it. Doesn’t matter if it breaks, it should be replaced while your subscription lasts.
So taking that into account, the less the hardware breaks, the more profit they have. So not only should it eliminate planned obsolescence, it would make engineering for durable products an actually very profitable business.
So, what is the difference between this approach and just selling an extended warranty?
With subscription you don’t own the product, but also you don’t pay up front.
With subscription, you should be able to buy as many months as you want. With extended warranty, I think companies usually only sell 1 extended warranty per item.
(I’m pulling the prices out of my ass, don’t try to calculate which one is more “worth it”.
Extended warranty:
30€ for the mouse (3 years warranty) 5€ 1 year extended warranty.
You are sure to have the item for at least 4 years. After that, you can use it until it breaks.
Subscription:
1€/month
You get to use the mouse for exactly the months you paid for. No more, no less
Also, with subscriptions you are likely to get a second hand item. But when you buy the item you are gonna get 1st hand unless you shop at Amazon.
I personally wouldn’t buy a subscription, I prefer to own it. However, I’ll admit that it’s not black and white, and subscriptions also have some benefits.
Another way instead of per time window is per use. For example, in the case of a mouse, per clicks.
So if you buy 1.000.000 clicks and rarely use the computer, you get to own the mouse for a very long time for very cheap, just in case you ever want to use it. This is basically today’s planned obsolescence, except the item doesn’t become trash, the company would just reset the counter and you or the next client can keep using it. If you use it a lot, it’s going to become real expensive real fast though.
I’m not sure Logitech can build a forever mouse anymore with the way their QA’s gone. Who’s buying new mice regularly anyway?
I’ve owned a g502 for over a decade now. I know their products are such shit now, I don’t know what I’ll do when it breaks. Definitely not get a mouse subscription, at least
Why my favorite mouse company gotta start with this bullshit. GOT-DAMN!
I will continue buying cheaper (and wired) mouses from no-name Chinese brands.
I have a Steelseries Rival 3 I’ve used for years now, it’s a lower end cheap one, but the quality is really good, and it’s still as good as new.
I’ll never buy a wired mouse again 🤷♂️
I never want to have to worry about charging my mouse 🤷♂️
A mouse that takes AA batteries are the best! No charging needed, just replace the battery once or twice a year.
Or use rechargeable AAs.
I am getting sick of one-off proprietary batteries in a form factor I’ll never see again or worse are permanently baked into a device.
lol
Another piece of the Forever Mouse puzzle is the software. Logitech uses its Options Plus software which essentially walks people through making prompts to interact with AI. But Faber says this is just the start:
This is intended to appeal to investors instead of customers.
Hey I need my mouse drivers to do chatGPT api calls, how else will I be able to email my toaster when I want to put bread in?
Yeah I really can’t imagine any scenario where I want my mouse to… Help me prompt AI??
Magnesium mouse
OR
Forever subscription
Hard to decide here, fellas. Idk.
Bite my shiny metal PS/2 adapter
Since we’re pretty much all in agreement that Logitech has enshittified with the Great Ones like Ubisoft, Hewlett Packard, and more, let’s talk about our last great products they made that we will no longer recommend! 😃
These are all my products that I love, and have been extremely high quality. All of them work just fine to this day!
- Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum mice (I own two, bought in 2018 I believe and still using)
- Logitech C920 1080p 30 FPS webcam
- Logitech G613 Lightspeed Wireless keyboard (great keyboard I use for work, hate that the keys are painted and will eventually wear away)
- Logitech G603 Wireless Mouse (for work, works fantastic!)
- Logitech Litra Beam LED lights (I own two)
Oh Logitech. Why can’t you just make products we can own instead of following the greedy “As a Service”? Ah well! Bound to happen one day (Steam, please please don’t ever become public).
I bought half a dozen G502’s when I found out they were changing them many years ago, and I’ve only opened 1 of them. Pretty sure I’m good for life at this point.
I like the M705 for my work PC. Wireless and the batteries literally last for years. They do eventually die to the ‘double click of death’ so no points for longevity of hardware.
Also have a G13 that I like. Never found a better gaming half-keyboard but they stopped making them a long time ago.
Dude, the G502 is such a great mouse. Mine has lived through so many years of gaming and is still chugging!
If you get ~7 years of life out of the M705, I would consider that to be quality since it would last through thousands of hours of usage. Any less and I would consider it a dud product, but that is certainly my opinion only there.
Never heard of the G13 before, so I looked it up and I think that’s pretty cool! This would have been a product I would have to try to see if it would fit my use case for gaming. A mini keyboard with a joystick seems cool, and admittedly I’m hovering my left hand in the air and trying to mimick what that would be like. Hard to conceptualize without actually trying it! I hope you got good use out of it, it does seem really cool.
If Logitech didn’t enshittify, they should’ve made their own version of the Power Glove. 😀 The Power Glove was way before my time on Earth, but man that would’ve been cool to see for PC.
I have never found anything as nice for my hand as the G502, and it has the perfect amount of buttons. That’s why I had to stock up!
The G13 got really popular AFTER Logitech discontinued it, because there really hasn’t been anything like it on the market. I went looking to stock up on those too, but I was too late - they will go for a couple hundred bucks or more, used, when you can find one!
Such a shame too because I always recommended the G502. I love the feel, the ergonomics, and the button placement. I love the customizeable weights you can swap in. I used to play with all the weights, but then over the years I took them all out and now use none. My aim got better in FPS games - I went from steaming hot garbage to just regular garbage LOL.
I’m going to watch a couple review videos of the G13 to see if it’s up my alley. And if yes, I’ll add that bad boy to my watch lists and pick up a used one if I can score it for a decent price.
did you ever watch the youtube ‘deepdive’ into the double click?
Turns out they are using an older switch which, while great at the time, wants a higher voltage than modern, electricity diet, mice.
I have not but I’ll check it out later. Thanks!
They do eventually die to the ‘double click of death’ so no points for longevity of hardware.
Interesting… I’ve had one for 10 years, use it nearly daily, and haven’t had any issues.
My previous logi mouse lasted for a decade before giving up.
My current MX mouse lasted almost 3 years before the rubber started separating from the case at the palm area.
I don’t know if I will buy another logi mouse.
I hear you dude. That 10+ year reputation is what drove me to buy their stuff, along with all the glowing user recommendations.
I heard that you can make the rubber last longer on mice by periodically cleaning them to slow their chance of breaking down, but I never experienced the rubber actually separating. That happened to my spouse’s Razer mouse (heh, that rhymes).
But I suppose that, apart from this whole post’s focus on “as a service”, that possibly Logi products have begun to go downhill quite recently. I wouldn’t know, all of mine have been great. Sucks for your MX mouse, but I feel you on the uncertainty of buying future Logi mice.
I have a Logitech G710+. After years (like 8) of use, the keycaps were starting to crack with age. I reached out to Logitech and they sent me all new keycaps, free of charge, despite being several times past the warranty period.
Truly amazing customer service.
That’s quality right there. You probably would have bought those key caps, but they just sent them to you for free. That’s going above and beyond, and that’s how you keep a customer. Noctua is all about that, and I’ll continue to buy their products and recommend them.
Such a shame, Logitech. You were great but now you’re turning into crap.
yea, would have happily paid for keycaps, since i was so far past any kind of warrenty.
Ended up buying some nicer, PBT kecaps 4 years after that anyways. Still use this keyboard, even if part of the backlighting has failed in the… 12 years.
Nice keycaps! Can you please provide link to them? Thinking of getting some fancy ones myself.
That’s a good looking keyboard right there mate.
Same with me! I bought that keyboard because at the time it was the cheapest mechanical keyboard I could find that wasn’t an Aliexpress special, and it’s still working well for me.
The keycaps for that keyboard have a known design issue - the plastic part that connects it to the key is too thin and breaks easily - which is why I think they’re willing to send out free replacements.
I use their webcams and I’m not very impressed with the results. They haven’t updated the technology in a decade or more.
That’s a fair point. It’s interesting because this month I was considering upgrading my webcam to a 1080p 60fps one and certainly was going to consider them. I probably would have lightly researched a new Logi webcam and then bought it considering their track record and how wonderful my products have been.
I want to give companies my money in exchange for good products, but it’s weird! My morals won’t let me for some reason. It’s like I don’t agree with Logitech or something! Oh well! I’ll keep my money in my pocket and save it for a better product that doesn’t treat their customers like cattle.
It’s such a pain to find things. Would be nice to just have a list of products that work decently without subscriptions or printer ink economy bullshit.
When enough people are burned, that list will arise spontaneously. I’m sure there are some that are out there, but they probably are not well-known yet.
For example in the privacy community, Privacy Guides is one of the golden sources. I expect we’ll see something soon for products that avoid enshittification.
The aggressive enshittification of everything is why I’ve started downloading games from gog instead of steam.
Its why i have a jellyfin server.
Now its why ill have to find a new favorite mouse to use and have multiple backups of (once my g502 wireless and the backup finally die)
Hello fellow GOG fan! I own 620 games on GOG, and I license 214 games on Steam. Granted some of those Steam games do not have DRM, so consider that an estimate.
Man you sound almost exactly like me lol. A lot of angry persons who have been burned by companies are becoming like us. What sent me over the edge was when Ubisoft threatened to shutdown their legacy activation servers, which would have led to me losing the DLC I purchased for my physical Wii U copy of Splinter Cell Blacklist. They backpedaled after significant fan backlash, but now I’ve been radicalized. I avoid “as a service” to the best of my ability and am deliberately hostile to these corporations.
Trying to make a flagship product and keep it pumped up through subscription sounds a lot like live service games.
And those all fucking suck.
looks down at right hand resting on a Logitech M570 I’ve made several repairs on
I can see their strategy. Keep using microswitches rated for 1,200 clicks and you might need a subscription to these things if you don’t know your way around a soldering iron.
There’s one way subscription-based hardware might be a good idea: it would motivate the companies to focus on quality and repairability, because they would be the ones who have to deal with that stuff. Unless of course if the EULA of such hardware is complete shit. Which of course it will be.
it would motivate the companies to focus on quality and repairability
CEO : No, not that kind of forever
It will be much cheaper for the company to replace rather than repair, then they don’t have to pay technicians
Another proof ceo’s that most of those cunts in charge either got there by winning the birth lottery or bullshitted their way up and are complete clueless idiots. Any sane person with an idea of what they are doing knows its all bullshit.
Maybe they could focus on making better mice! The super light x 2 is falling behind more and more every year
If I made my thoughts known about this development, I’d be permanently banned from lemmy.world.
