My personal opinion she should have voted against funding the genocidal regime of Israel and this is the consequence 🤷
They’re committing a genocide. No amount of wishy-washy Behavior about whether or not is real people deserve a right to defense matters anymore when they’ve systematically slaughtered 200,000 Palestinians and these defensive systems are enabling that Slaughter.
Israel would be much less bold if they didn’t have their missile system to protect them from any retaliatory strikes like the strike on Iran.
CCTV footage will likely show the perps to be off duty cops, lol
Off duty? Nah. Those motherfuckers probably got paid overtime for it.
The footage will be lost before it can show any duty cop.
Off duty cops are rarely pro-Palestine supporters
Um, they rarely support Palestine but they’d love to vandalize the office of someone who does…. The premise of my comment was that this vandalism was made to look like leftists had done it when it was actually an off-duty cop or some other right wing agitator
“If you’re saying I voted for military funding, you are lying,” she wrote. “Drag me for my positions all you want, but lying about them doesn’t make you part of the ‘left.’ If you believe neo-Nazis are welcome and operating in good faith, you can have them.”
She did though, right?
It’s not military when it’s a defensive rocket battery staffed by military dumb dumb
If it’s purely defensive weapon then why don’t they sell them to Russia, Iran or North Korea?
She also throws Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Al Green under the bus to make this stupid rant.
Like, the most devils advocate I can be for her vote is that she’s arguing that we shouldn’t take away their shield, we should take away their spear.
To which… I still don’t see the logic. Because if you can block with one hand you’re free to stab with the other. If all you have is stabby implements, you got no way to deal with when they stab back.
They’d be forced to be less aggressive, which they seem intent to be.
AOC supports what’s going on in Gaza? lol. Wut.
She literally just voted against throwing more money at the Iron Dome.
The other way round, she voted against blocking military aid for the iron dome
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-861796
https://www.newarab.com/news/aoc-defends-decision-back-fresh-us-military-aid-israel
Didn’t she literally vote against the MTG amendment that stripped all funding from Israel?
See, that’s how the propaganda works. She voted against the MTG amendment that stripped a tiny tiny fraction of the funding from Israel. Which was always going to fail, pretty much unanimously, because MTG. And then, when the whole bill (with whole funding for Israel) came to the floor, she voted against it. And also, separate bills which are just for funding Israel in the past
But it’s been consistently presented to you with wording that makes it sound like she had a chance to strip all funding from Israel, and she decided not to. Search “horseshit” in this comments section, it’s a little complicated, but basically, no she literally didn’t vote against what you described.
So she should have voted symbolically for it like the five Democrats who did?
I don’t care how much money it takes away from Israel they deserves no money while it’s committing a genocide.
I’ll just copy and paste.
For the uninitiated: MTG’s amendment left intact the funding for offensive weapons, but cut the funding for defensive weapons for Israel. So there is literally no way AOC could win. Leaving aside the fact that it was a kooky MTG amendment that was never going to pass in the first place… If she voted for the amendment, then everyone who is currently screaming that she’s a fake leftist who supports genocide could say “See? SHE VOTED FOR KEEPING ISRAEL’S FUNDING INTACT, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!” Since she voted against it, they are currently screaming “See? SHE VOTED AGAINST DEFUNDING ISRAEL, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!”
It’s just more can’t-win, let’s-eat-the-leftest-person-because-we’re-super-leftist-I-promise horseshit.
Edit: Here’s AOC voting against funding for Israel, in bills that were actually non-Hobson’s-choice opportunities to vote against aid for Israel:
And her voting against the actual funding bill providing aid to Israel (both offensive and defensive): https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212
I was going to link to those from my comment above, but I guess my brain malfunctioned before I got to it. I’ve said the exact same thing on this topic a sufficient number of times that it’s like I’m getting that World War 1 disorder where you can’t pull a trigger anymore because the weight of doing it over and over is insupportible.
I don’t care what’s politically expedient. I don’t care what’s politically acceptable.
I care about my Representatives standing up for what’s morally acceptable.
Continuing to give any sort of funds to a state committing genocide is tangential support of that genocide.
I do not care that AOC has also voted down other Israel funding bills when she has been consistent on funding the Iron Dome.
I do not care about her preconceived notions about how this would leave “Israelis defenseless”. Israel is entirely surrounded by US military bases on all sides and is capable of manufacturing the Iron Dome missiles.
Israel would simply need to use the $9 million already allocated to them ( for their genocide) instead of the $500 million of United States taxpayer money so that they can continue to be the most belligerent Empire in the Middle East.
Edit:
As you pointed out this vote was never going to win and so was symbolic. This would have been an easy win with her constituents with how unpopular Israel currently is instead she is currently doubling down and accusing people of being fake leftists for criticizing her position.
Unfortunately she seems to have lost the plot
I do not care that AOC has also voted down other Israel funding bills when she has been consistent on funding the Iron Dome.
I feel like you’ve been infected at this point, and can’t really grasp what I’m trying to explain here.
She has not been consistent on funding the Iron Dome. She has been consistent, as far as I know, about trying to defund US aid for Israel in any way she can. This whole thing is a weird and stupid blowing-up of one isolated vote of a stupid amendment proposed by the worst person in congress that was never going to pass, and then a pretty dumb way she chose to explain it.
When has she ever voted, previous to this, to give funding for the Iron Dome? Or did you just make up this “consistency” randomly on the spot because it fit in with the ginned-up stuff you’d already seen about this one particular weird blown-up situation?
Just so you know I am the one @dastanktal@lemmy.ml was having that elections debate on. Unfortunately they are just very privileged and can afford to just wait until a perfect candidate shows up. I don’t think they are wrong when they see something gross in the DNC and not want to be a part of it, but [class] war is by its nature very dirty. I have to say I am lucky to be white and not hunted down by ICE. I am lucky to not be cold and hungry because the IDF is placing my city under siege. Still I would vote for AOC because slowing down the funding for those things does help the most vulnerable. Ideally we are all on the same page: to just end this. Until we actually build a movement that materially produces policy and cultural change at every level of society we have to do settle for living to fight another day. I am afraid that Tanktal just isn’t serious about the material conditions of those affected by neglecting elections.
Look you would have a point if it weren’t for the fact that they were five other Democrats that supported mtg and all of them are pro Palestinian.
Voting for stripping any money away is unequivocally a win when the country is responsible for a genocide.
It’s not infectious. I just really really really want my tax dollars to stop funding a genocide.
As far as her voting consistently on the Iron Dome funding I’ll go look into her voting record and report back because this is something I heard consistently. It’s one of the places where her and Bernie Sanders seem to be weak.
Perhaps I’m not up to speed, but she was one of the first reps to call Israel’s actions a genocide. What gives?
It’s more bad-faith horseshit to get leftists to destroy one another, which a lot of leftists love to lap up because their critical thinking isn’t real strong and they love nothing more than being “holier than” some kind of previously respected icon.
MTG’s amendment left intact the funding for offensive weapons, but cut the funding for defensive weapons for Israel. So there is literally no way AOC could win. Leaving aside the fact that it was a kooky MTG amendment that was never going to pass in the first place… If she voted for the amendment, then everyone who is currently screaming that she’s a fake leftist who supports genocide could say “See? SHE VOTED FOR KEEPING ISRAEL’S FUNDING INTACT, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!” Since she voted against it, they are currently screaming “See? SHE VOTED AGAINST DEFUNDING ISRAEL, SHE SUPPORTS GENOCIDE!”
It’s just more can’t-win, let’s-eat-the-leftest-person-because-we’re-super-leftist-I-promise horseshit.
Here’s AOC voting against funding for Israel, in an actual bill that was actually a non-Hobson’s-choice opportunity to vote against aid for Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-meets-with-aoc-in-wake-of-her-vote-against-military-aid-for-israel/
And her voting against the actual funding bill providing aid to Israel: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212
I’ve also seen people say Bernie is a Zionist, because he says “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide.” Both Bernie and AOC’s vocal opposition to genocide doesn’t matter to these people. Actually, it’s that genuine leftism that they represent that makes them dangerous, and worthwhile to engineer cooked-up horseshit to use to get other people to turn on them, so the Marco Rubios of the world can take over un-contested.
I mean… it really doesn’t take much to get people on the left to turn on each other. It’s kind of a historic problem with leftist ideological groups in general - they’re awfully quick to declare each other the wrong type of leftist, or not leftist enough, and then refuse to cooperate.
There certainly are outside provocateurs, but I wouldn’t leap to that conclusion in every occasion. Hanlon’s razor applies.
Maybe. It’s real hard for me not to notice the pattern recognition of “Kamala Harris supports genocide!” “AOC supports genocide!” “Bernie supports genocide!”, basically literally any person in American politics who’s trying to do some kind of leftist thing with any level of popularity, there’s some kind of bizarre moon logic whereby they must support genocide and we’ve got to start screaming it at them and never support them again.
I will agree with you that some stupid features of the left tend to provide some nice dry powder for this kind of thing but I don’t remember this kind of thing happening in American politics any time previous to the social-media-mass-shilling age of political discourse. Like circa 2000, there was a super vigorous protest movement, but it was aimed at shadowy neoliberal quasi-governments, fascist police, war machines… you know, the enemy. No one was out screaming at Al Gore for destroying the climate and throwing red paint at his offices.
here is a solution, make it clear you don’t support a genocide ! how is that hard is beyond me. If you are okay with “war crimes” and “using food as a weapon” and “apartheid state” and “illegal occupation” then how people should “trust you”.
This like saying “I am okay with giving Hitler weapon to defend German while he is committing a genocide” or “I am okay with giving apartheid South Africa weapons to protect white people while discriminating against black”
If your morality change based on who is affected do not breach morality.
Hanlon’s razor applies
No it doesn’t. Why would anyone still put any stock in that bullshit after witnessing the pure malice that has infected every aspect of American society?
Hanlon’s razor was never really a great axiom, imo, but now it’s completely dead.
Hanlon’s razor always applies. If you always assume that everything bad that happens is intentionally malicious, with no acceptance of human weaknesses and the potential for mistakes, then you are part of the extremism problem. You are part of the “everyone who does something that I don’t like must be evil” group.
Hanlon’s razor was never really a great axiom, imo, but now it’s completely dead.
If you actually believe this, I’m afraid you’re on the wrong side of the razor.
We don’t need more extremist rhetoric. We don’t need more division. We don’t need to perpetuate the “us vs. them” mentality.
If you are othering, you are wrong.
Yes, even with Republicans.
We take away the power of divisive, destructive autocrats by finding or making common cause.
So there is literally no way AOC could win
You know some people voted against it, right?
AOC’s vocal opposition to genocide
Actions speak louder than words. She’s supposed to be the vanguard of the “new democrats” that are supposedly going to save the party.
Why did a little handful of different accounts all suddenly interject to this same comments section to leave short one-off comments about how AOC is definitely the worst for doing this, all within a few minutes of each other, on this mostly-dead comments section roughly one hour ago? That’s weird.
This is a bad faith interpretation of why leftists are upset. No one is saying the bill was enough. However, it would have had the effect of blocking Israel’s defense aid, and in this desperate moment where Israel is being allowed to starve a whole people to death with no repercussions, it was something we could have done to mitigate their freedom to continue to do so. In her statement, AOC didn’t just mention the offensive-vs.-defensive aid thing–she also brought up protecting innocent civilians, implying that not providing the defensive aid would result in innocent Isrealis dying. In the context of innocent Palestinians being a day or two from mass death, that is a fucking cop-out.
The bill providing funding for Israel, she voted against. Pretty sure I mentioned that.
So further if your metric for being able to support a vigorously left-wing politician who’s been voting against aid for Israel, calling it a genocide, yelling about it on the house floor, and so on and so on, including pushing for justice for working people whose voice is basically nonexistent within the US congress, is that never once do they say one dumb thing on Twitter, then I would wonder who in or out of politics you would be willing to support. This is like the people who are yelling about how Mamdani is a “fake leftist” and as a good leftist they can’t support him because he’s just a fake for the Democrats and they won’t get fooled again…
Any substantive cut on Israel’s funding needs to be made if it is introduced. I literally don’t care what they’re defunding or who introduced the bill; the less my taxpayer dollars go to genocidal psychos, the better. End of story.
Sure, but this bill was never actually going to do that. If this was an actual bill that could be passed, fine it doesn’t have to be perfect to be worthwhile and it doesn’t matter who introduced it. But this wasn’t that. It was purely a statement bill, and that statement is colored by who wrote it.
You make an important distinction, but by voting against the statement AOC is still saying “I don’t like the idea of defunding Israel’s Iron Dome”.
Is that not something to be frustrated with?
We have virtually no progressive politicians in the US. The ones that are progressive inevitably concede to safe and exhausted liberal ideologies, and this further proves that point.
No she isn’t. That vote means she does not want to support the totality of the messaging amendment, which includes saying offensive weapons are fine, the priority is America First, and that an antisemite should be lead writer on bills on Israel. You guys are acting like this was a real bill that just needed political support to pass and not voting for the Jewish Space Lasers lady’s bill just supercedes every actually meaningful public statement on the issue she’s made.
So I’m exposing my ignorance here, but I have a question.
Apart from MTG’s association, how am I to make the distinction between a “real” bill and a “statement “ bill?
I understand what you’re saying, and have been persuaded by your latest comment; I’m just hung up on that “just a statement bill” thing.
E: I guess it’s literally as simple as “MTG is such a joke that her bills will never pass”.
Wait, I looked it up and found this amendment introduced by MTG that AOC voted no on. It didn’t seem to have to do with the defensive weapons at all.
It was to defund the Israeli Cooperative Programs. https://www.congress.gov/amendment/119th-congress/house-amendment/55/all-info?s=a&r=3
I googled that program and found the below.
Israeli Cooperative Programs refer to various initiatives and collaborations that involve cooperative efforts between Israel and other countries, organizations, or communities. These programs can span multiple sectors, including agriculture, technology, education, and research. Here are some key aspects:
Agricultural Cooperatives: Israel is known for its advancements in agricultural technology and practices. Cooperative programs often focus on sharing these innovations with other countries, particularly in areas like water management, irrigation, and sustainable farming techniques. Technology and Innovation: Israel has a robust tech ecosystem, often referred to as "Startup Nation." Cooperative programs may involve partnerships with foreign companies or governments to foster innovation, share technology, and develop new products or services. Research and Development: Many Israeli universities and research institutions engage in cooperative programs with international partners to conduct joint research projects, share knowledge, and develop new technologies. Cultural and Educational Exchanges: These programs may also include cultural exchanges, educational partnerships, and initiatives aimed at promoting understanding and collaboration between Israel and other nations. Economic Cooperation: Israel engages in various economic cooperative agreements that facilitate trade, investment, and economic development with other countries.Overall, Israeli Cooperative Programs aim to leverage Israel’s expertise and innovations to foster collaboration and mutual benefit across different sectors and regions.
I’m pretty sure there was a genuine amendment defunding the Iron Dome that MTG introduced. I could be wrong but I saw that in sources that don’t just make stuff up.
She proposed a big handful of amendments; maybe Iron Dome is in ICP and they just don’t like to publicize it very much, or maybe it was in one of the other amendments.
Meanwhile Republicans figured out decades ago that alienating your own party (even the “radicals”) doesn’t get you elected, and simply protesting the chosen candidate by just not voting doesn’t actually help you achieve your goals. It’s a hard pill for establishment Democrats and leftists to swallow, but it’s truth.
Republicans weren’t doing Nazi salutes on stage at presidential inaugurations until recently, but they have been pandering to the far right for a very long time. They’ve gradually moved further and further right, while the left has been ignoring their own base in order to welcome aboard the fiscal conservatives (and their donations) slowly jumping ship.
Paul Weyrich created the new right movement. He voted Republican for his entire life, but he also seemed to really hate the establishment Republican party. He was quite vocal about it, and as every election year approached, he would start shit talking Republicans for not focusing enough on conservative social issues.
Before Weyrich and the creation of a moral majority, “fiscal conservatives/Rockefeller Republicans,” who didn’t really care about social issues were the backbone of the Republican party. Abortion was mainly just an issue conservative Catholics and nobody else cared about. Once Weyrich created his movement though, he used public pressure to change the party little by little. It took his whole life, and he didn’t actually live to see the absolute batshit fruits of his labor, but without Paul Weyrich, there would be no Donald Trump and no Project 2025.
There would also be way fewer rich conservatives who have pressured the democratic party to embrace a move towards moderate centrism.
1983:Righting Reagan’s Revolution
The 1980 presidential election rewarded incompetence, and that incompetence moved right into the White House. If you have to find out who makes the decisions over there, you will go insane. I challenge you to go to the White House and find out. You’ll be in St. Elizabeths in short order, and I’ll come visit you."
He thinks Reagan has ignored issues most important to Weyrich: school prayer, an end to abortion, pornography, government “hand-outs”–issues that appeal to what he calls “cultural” conservatives, grass-rooters most concerned about family, God and country. That concern includes free enterprise, a balanced budget and a pre-eminent weapons system for America
1998: Religious Right, Frustrated, Trying New Tactic on G.O.P.
Early in March, Paul Weyrich, the godfather of social conservatives, summoned about 25 prominent leaders from the religious and political right for a secret meeting in his office here overlooking the rail yards behind Union Station.
They fumed that they had been used and abused, like some cheap date. In one election after another, they said, conservative foot soldiers had dutifully worked the phone banks, walked the precincts and turned out masses of voters for Republican candidates who had promised action on issues like abortion, pornography and homosexuality. And the Republicans, they complained, had consistently failed to deliver.
2000: Hard Right Burning for Bush?
Perhaps it was because he was recovering from painful back surgery, but a few weeks before the Republican convention, Paul Weyrich, a founder of the religious right, was awful grumpy about George
He did this kind of shit nonstop until he eventually shaped the right into what it is today. If you didn’t know who he was, and you just heard the way he described his frustration towards the Republican party when he first got involved in politics back in the 70s, you might just as easily think you were listening to a leftist complain about Democrat centrists in 2025.
Weyrich hailed as conservative pioneer
“In the early ‘70s, when most conservatives were reduced to wringing their hands and resigning themselves to life in the political wilderness, Paul just seemed to know what was needed to break the liberal stranglehold,” recalled Feulner.
Paul Weyrich: Father of a New Right
Weyrich waved aloft a monograph from the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a right-of-center think tank. The study carefully examined both sides of a controversial issue—the federal funding of a supersonic transport plane (the SST). The Senate had just voted 51-46 to halt government support of the SST, which some conservative hawks favored to maintain U.S. technological superiority over the Soviets. The AEI report arrived in Allott’s office after the Senate debate.
A puzzled Weyrich contacted William Baroody, Sr., AEI president and a member of his church. “Great study,” he said. “But why didn’t we get it sooner so we could use it in the debate?” Baroody explained: “We didn’t want to try to affect the outcome of the vote.” Unspoken was the admission that AEI didn’t want to be too “political” and jeopardize its tax-exempt status. For one of the few times in his life, Weyrich was speechless.
That’s some crazy shit to try and distract from the Epstein files. How the fuck do you know if your “ally” is using a weapon defensively or offensively.
Stupid shit.
Spot on. It would have played out the same way no matter what she did.
Yeah. There’s always something to capitalize on.
There are some fucking emergencies going on, among them the literal starvation of everyone in Gaza. Go up to the US Capitol building or your local Brooks Brothers, or fucking wherever, and spray-paint “PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE DYING TONIGHT”? Fuckin’ spot on, man, please do. Go and shit on the lefty-est person you can find because you found a tiny chink in her behavior that you can exploit and start bullying her over for the next year and a half? Honestly, man, it really irritates me.
I think the reason they like to do it is because she’s vulnerable. If they were protesting the people actually killing Palestinians, or the people taking over our country and cancelling democracy, they might punch back real hard. That’s scary, so let’s go throw some paint on someone who is in a precarious enough position that she’ll have to just take it.
Honestly, fuck 'em. Like I say it irritates me.
She’s the chosen lightning rod and MTG is the chosen lightning. Everyone ignores her voting record and stares into the flash.
Because it’s that easy. Textbook. But it shows that progressives are a threat. And we’ll see more of this. Especially at midterms.
Yeah. I guess that’s a good way to look at it, is they’re spending so much energy on it because the progressive momentum is steadily building. I just wish their energy would quit translating into success.
What kind of perpetrator takes a photo of their activity… Do they want to get caught?
Someone whose primary purpose is the cred and self-aggrandization, and not the political impact
It’s probably some right winger trying to attack her from the left in an effort to split her support. Attacks from the right make her stronger, so they’ll attack from the left to make leftists abandon her.
And reading the comments on Lemmy, it’s working.
This is what the left does best. Eat itself.
I see a potential backdrop for a photo shoot.
She literally voted to keep sending weapons to Israel. I dont think NYers should vote her out but FFS what’s going on when Margaret Taylor Green is the sympathetic rogue in Congress and AOC is the faithful party follower?
Here’s her vote against the appropriations bill in full, including both the offensive and defensive weapons systems funding: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025212
Search the comments for “Hobson’s choice” for a more complete explanation
MTG isn’t a sympathetic rogue, she’s a isolationist nationalist at her core. That is, any money leaving the country = bad. Just happens to align with palestinian interests on this specific topic.
