Their hairstyles are displaying convergent evolution.
Idk if I’m back on the accelerationist train or not yet. Not that I can vote in the States, so it doesn’t matter. Regardless, I feel like it would be hard for anyone that even slightly cares about the future to vote for either of these two earnestly. As a progressive, you’d have to weigh the pros and cons of the value of the Dems possibly reevaluating and restructuring if Trump gets back in, vs the absolute abysmal reactions and policies that Trump will cause if he does, especially outside the US. But then if you vote the Dems in again, the neo-nazis around the world will feel less empowered, and there will be less terrible decision making in the short term. All at the cost of Dems not having to change the status quo, and effectively being the lesser evil for the foreseeable future.
Actually, I don’t envy the American voter. And I certainly wouldn’t want to vote in this election.
Dude, fuck off. Your opinion doesn’t matter, and if it’s just that doing the best thing possible also sucks then it’s not useful. Yeah, the system needs to change eventually, but I’m happy to vote for the person who is doing more good than most US presidents in my memory. Biden isn’t who I’d choose, but he’s much better than just a supporter of genocide or whatever. Under his administration the other day the FTC just banned non-compete clauses for example. It’s all very quite, but the Biden administration has done much better than most US president.
Guy reiterated what any reasonably knowledgeable American voter already knows and almost equivocated over our choice like we actually have a choice. Well, we do… throw away votes by not voting or voting third party, voting for the trump disaster, or what constitutes our liberal party with Biden.
Unless you’re into fascism and a likely dictatorship, there’s really only one choice. The only people screaming about genocide and laying it at Biden’s feet are the same ones worshipping the military industrial complex.
Regardless, I feel like it would be hard for anyone that even slightly cares about the future to vote for either of these two earnestly…
Actually, I don’t envy the American voter. And I certainly wouldn’t want to vote in this election.
Yeah, this comment is a little more than just saying it sucks that we only have two choices. It’s pretty much saying voting won’t change anything, and they wouldn’t feel compelled to vote. I’m about as left as they come, but Biden has been fairly good as far as US presidents go (which isn’t very far in the past century or so). It’s a really easy choice to advocate for, especially when the other party says and does what they do.
There’s a lot of those. I’ve mentioned it before on this site, but there are a lot of posts intimating the futility of voting, how shitty the candidates are, blaming anyone who votes for Biden as a supporter of Israel, and often just straight-up blaming Biden for Israel’s actions. They really ramped up maybe two to three months ago.
No progressive is voting earnestly for Biden, they just don’t want a fucking dictator dismantling the EPA and stacking the courts with more corrupt servants of the Federalist Society.
There are no pros for the Dems restructuring, they first of all won’t do it, and secondly we are running out of being able to vote at all. The next insurrection has better odds of success.
How is this even a conversation with anyone? We don’t like Biden, but he hasn’t led an insurrection. Do people want to continue having any choice at all?
Exactly.
Anyone not voting because they don’t like Biden very much is missing the whole picture. It can always get worse.
It’s always getting worse every single day. Biden is just less worse.
I’m fine with nuance like that and I agree.
It’s like we are on a slick road headed for a tree. Biden is the brake and Trump is the accelerator: same 3 options for voting.
I’m a true Leftist and it’s incredibly frustrating seeing so many Democrats that just went back to sleep during Biden’s presidency. People should be out in the streets protesting and fighting for a better future. They let Dems do basically nothing because “at least Biden’s not Trump.”
Most Americans just went back to sleep.
Most people desire peace in their life, and will suffer greatly to maintain it. But it’s getting harder for people to convince themselves that this is actually peace.
Yall call this civilization? It’s the jungle with extra steps and concrete
Hey man I have like a 4 hour daily commute I’m tired when I get home give me a break-
oh you meant colloquially. Right yeah I think a lot of people held so much tension in the preceding 4 years that the collective sigh of relief caused them all to pass out for the next 3. I think a few are starting to come out of hibernation, but I really hope they all get the sand out of their eyes before election day.
When Bill Clinton was in office in the 90’s, after the Democrats lost three presidential elections in a row to Republicans, he did not adopt socialist policies. Bill Clinton and Democratic party declared they would no longer fight Republicans on economic issues. The Democratic party shifted to the right, not the left, in response to losing elections. They opted to grab moderate voters from Republicans rather than try to win over more progressive voters.
If Democrats see moderates voting in the next election, but not progressives they will move to the right to grab those voters. They aren’t interested in chasing nonvoters or third party voters. So, the choice is not between averting fascism and driving the Democratic Party to the left. Those options are one in the same for progressives. The choice is between driving the Democratic Party to the left and averting fascism or allowing fascism to take hold in the US and allowing the Democratic Party to drift to the right. Of course if we lose our democracy, which way the Democrats shift isn’t going to matter, but I think it’s important to make this clear. There is nothing to be gained for progressives by not participating in elections, only things to lose.
This is a clear cut decision, but unfortunately people on the left are not framing it that way. We need to choose the option that delays fascism for another four years. We need time to give ourselves the opportunity to convince people that socialism is the answer to fixing our problems not blaming out groups. Considering the consequences of a fascist dictatorship in the US, voting is the thing everyone should want to do.
And this makes sense. Because the election has shown that the nation is happy to vote the right wing Republicans into the government, not the lesser evil Democrats, so naturally the Democrats would have to shift towards the popular opinion a bit more, instead of radicalizing to the left.
You guys need ranked choice voting.
We need it so bad, but neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want it, so we’re fucked unless we revolt.
We aren’t Russia (for now). Some states have already succeeded in their efforts to do away with First Past The Post voting. It’s not impossible!
Don’t give up working towards peace, but yes prepare for the inevitable purge Republicans salivate over daily. They are armed and organized, are you?
Some of us aren’t privileged to be on the bottom of the Republican hit list.
I would prefer score voting but I will take anything that allows me to meaningfully vote third party.
We need to choose the option that delays fascism for another four years.
And then in four years we need to choose that same option.
And four years after that.
And four years after that.
And four years after that.
Just like every presidential election I’ve voted in.
This is why they don’t need to worry about progressives. First, because the country isn’t progressive at all. And second because they can always just tell them that if they don’t vote they’re enabling fascism.
Since Bill Clinton until Trump the choices were between neoliberals and neoconservatives. Neoliberalism leads to fascism, so if we stick with neoliberalism it’s going to become harder and harder to delay fascism. We need socialist candidates like Bernie Sanders to win the presidency and Congress. But we’re stuck with the incumbent president for this election, which is typical of American politics. If our democracy lasts that long, we will have another shot at a progressive president in 2028.
Give the polling on progressive policies, it would seem the country’s population is more progressive overall than our elected representatives. Republicans are definitely overrepresented. That means it is essential that as many progressives vote as possible to give Democrats room to move the left. All the Democrats are interested is being where the Overton window is in order to gain the most votes. Progressives have to shift the Overton window to the left by voting Blue if we want to see change. edit: typos
I disagree that the country is progressive, because we have a government that represents us and there aren’t that many progressives at any level of government.
Accepting that Americans are shitty and dumb makes it easier to understand why our government sucks ass.
The country is more progressive than our current representatives. Our democracy has many different flaws in it, that have been there since the constitution was written, that undermine majority rule. Our current government does not accurately represent the population’s views. Fascists are exploiting these flaws to perform their takeover. We need more people voting, especially progressives, to correct for these flaws. Mother Jones did a great job of reporting on this topic.
Being more progressive than our current representation isn’t hard, and doesn’t make them “progressive.”
And if progressives don’t move to the flyover states en masse it won’t matter how much they vote.
And if progressives don’t move to the flyover states en masse it won’t matter how much they vote.
There are progressives in every state. The margin of victory in swing states is so narrow that every vote counts. And even in non-swing states, there are plenty of races where progressive voters can make a difference. But more importantly, even if a progressive is in a non-swing state they should still vote, because it’s important for Democrats to see that progressives make a sizable portion of the electorate and specifically their voting base across the country.
Being more progressive than our current representation isn’t hard, and doesn’t make them “progressive.”
No where in my argument did I say that being more progressive than their representatives make them progressives. Just that the current state of affairs in the United States with its current policies is not representative of the people. Whether that issue is abortion, trans rights, the minimum wage, universal healthcare, or whole host of other issues. The majority is not being represented properly at present on these issues. By assuming that where we are now as a country on these issues is reflective of the people is to miss an incredible opportunity. There is the potential to shift the Overton window to the left and radically change the US for the better. edit: typo
Idk if I’m back on the accelerationist train or not yet
Voting as Fire Extinguisher
by Kyle Tran Myhre
When the haunted house catches fire: a moment of indecision.
The house was, after all, built on bones, and blood, and bad intentions.
Everyone who enters the house feels that overwhelming dread, the evil that perhaps only fire can purge.
It’s tempting to just let it burn.
And then I remember: there are children inside.
Yes, I get that, but at what point do you start considering future children over the current children? Accelerationists are not deontologists, they are consequentialists. A child lost now is valued against the amount of children saved at some calculated point later.
No, the best way to convince an accelerationist that accelerationism is not the right play is to show that there will be no decently positive outcome. Which I’m inclined to agree with, since I can only imagine the continual election of populist figures such as Trump will only increase the divide between voters of the two parties. This’ll create more violence, possibly destabilize the US, and could destabilize large parts of the western world due to policy, military vacuum, and emboldening of alt right groups. Now measure all those consequences against the possibility of an improvement in the political system and multiply that by likelihood. This, to me, seems like a very low gain, for the high likelihood of increased losses. So it should be preferable for accelerationists to go with Biden, since he’s likely to bring about accelerationists goals too, but with less risk, but much slower.
Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s incredibly hard to vote earnestly rather than strategically.
“If they could”
They could, it’s called the primaries
This is one of many problems with primary voting, but it still works. The DNC elites clearly wanted Hillary to win in 2008, and they wanted Bernie to get far fewer votes in 2016 and 2020. But the reality is there’s not a lot of situations where they’d actually reverse a primary vote, if nothing else because the backlash would be so extreme they’d be guaranteeing an election loss anyway.
100 percent of return2ozma political posts are attacking Biden.
If they’re not a voter suppressionist trying to get Trump elected they’re doing a great pretending to be one.
Is the Hill trying to get Trump elected too because they published it? And these 62% of democrat voters - paid shills? Russian bots?
2 posts out of however many is margin of error. The vast majority of your posts are biased against Biden and Democrats. I don’t know why you left Reddit - you had a steady income stream from r/Conservative and The_Dingus before it was shut down. You really should just fuck off back to Reddit.
No pro-genocide centrist cares.
You are a one-trick-pony with the argument in these articles. I’m going to start voting even harder now.
The Hill. lol
raises hand
Not me. Fuck Trump. Biden is a good guy and I would vote for him no matter what but I think the idea of Harris getting to be president because Biden is too old and dies is a win win. So the Biden - Harris ticket is fuck yeah from me.
I think the idea of Harris getting to be president because Biden is too old and dies is a win win
Fuck Harris
Fuck trump
Absolutely, and if I could vote in your election, I would be voting Biden, I would just be unhappy about it.
Primaries are a different story; dissent is what primaries are for.
Fuck Harris though
Probably ninety percent of those would want to replace any relevant Democrat that made it on the ballet. Big deal. What a useless story.
Yeah, that’s the expected result for any party that isn’t a cult.
That’s because we don’t respect dance.
Ah five! six! seven! eight!
You call that a pirouette? Chin up and again!
Starting at five? That’s too progressive!
Kids these days don’t respect a one, a two , a one two three four.
Yep, but that logic takes away from the manufactured outrage that is enjoyed by so many here in this community.
What?
This is percentage of Biden voters…
The majority of people who would vote for him. Wishes there was any other option.
That’s a pretty big story
Anyone thinking about responding to this poster, please look at their post history so you know what you’re getting into with regard to ANYTHING even tangentially related to Biden.
I just had to block them. Don’t even need to see the username to know who it is. Engaging with them and even the OP here is nothing but a carnival of bad faith arguments.
Yeah. Dude is a pretty well known right-wing propagandist. This is evident in the fact that they have nothing critical to say about anyone or anything on the right. They’re clearly here to spread propaganda to those that are disillusioned with the system.
A non vote for Biden from someone who would have voted for I’m, is a clear boon to Trump.
They know this, and be they’re hoping everyone else doesn’t.
(This comment will be removed by the mods once the rest of the bots report it enough)
The above commenter is a well known Hawaiian Pizza lover, he’s the absolute worst. /s
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Stop being paranoid about the mods they’re actually pretty fucking reasonable.
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Why don’t you just respond to the article. This poster has a habit of posting controversial articles that are critical of Biden’s actions but America is a fucking democracy and we can have an adult discussion about his flaws.
Having those conversations makes it more likely people will vote for him - compared to just muzzling everyone and saying “he’s so perfect” because we can fucking see his flaws. Silencing discussion drives down voter turn out and low voter turnout is how asshole GOP folks keep getting elected. Also those anti choice church goers are going to blindly vote for the adulterer - so we need to overwhelm the idiot factor.
- I’m not paranoid about the mods. I’ve dealt with them first hand on this shit.
- Discussing flaws is one thing, flat-out suggesting people NOT vote is another.
No one is suggesting anyone stifle discussion. Nor is anyone saying he’s perfect. But doing nothing but spread ant-Biden shit is clearly one showing their true colors. If we’re going to be fair, and expect fairness in others, let’s actually be fair. And when others aren’t showing that fairness- they absolutely should be called out.
If someone wants to accuse me of being an anti-Trump liberal- and base said accusation on the results of my comment history… I’ll agree with them, because my comment history is rife with anti-Trump rhetoric.
But if another posts nothing but anti-Biden rhetoric, and their comment history shows nothing but- should we just…. Pretend there’s no agenda there?
Should we not notice? Should we not call it out?
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True for the OP too. There’s definitely an element on some of the Lemmy communities that seems to exist only or at least primarily to push negative Biden prop (or barring that, anti-US prop in general). I checked Reddit recently for the first time in months (kind of like going to Walmart–avoid it like the plague, but sometimes you just can’t), and I was genuinely astonished at how little anti-Biden content was present by comparison.
I’m voting for Joe in November, and you should too. Joe’s administration killed NDAs, flipped the procedure for airline canceled and delayed flight refunds (i.e., pro-consumer), and pushed back the exempt employee loophole–and that’s just the news from this week. He’s an awesome president without even considering that the other side is composed entirely of criminals, Russian assets, and fascists.
That actually relieves me. Like, people going, “I won’t vote/will vote 3rd party” seem to not realize that if Biden doesn’t get in, Trump will, and he not only would push genocide MUCH more, but also WILL destroy the electoral system to stay in power and avoid jail.
Hell, Project 2025 leaking proved this
So a good reminder that the Fediverse is being echoey helps the fear some
Like, people going, “I won’t vote/will vote 3rd party” seem to not realize that if Biden doesn’t get in,
I think people saying that are well aware a 3rd party vote means a second Trump presidency. Most are saying that in bad faith. The posters posting it either have no plan to vote third party, or they’re not even US citizens (as their posts would suggest they are) and they’re not allowed to vote anyway.
Joe’s administration killed NDAs,
I don’t think you mean NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements). I think you mean Non-compete agreements.
You are correct. I haven’t seen the two separated in years, so I tend to use NDA as a blanket term. Editing for clarity.
It’s an important fact, but hardly a major or unique case. I know I’ve personally never felt like any of the candidates in any of the elections I remember were great, just “good enough” or “better than some of the alternatives”
Looking at some recent primaries
Back in 2020, Biden only had 51.7% of the votes in the democratic primaries. That made him by far the biggest single candidate, but that also means that almost half of democrats would have probably been happy to replace them with one of the other 4 candidates if they could (though they would have disagreed on which of the 4.) Most of them would still go on to vote for biden despite him not being their first pick.
In 2016, trump won with 44.9%, again the biggest single candidate, but that means that 55.1% wanted not trump. Of course most of that majority still held their nose and voted for him in November, but the majority of them probably would have been happy to replace him at that time if they could.
2008 was really fucking close for the Democrats, Obama beat out Hillary with 48.1% of the vote to her 48%, and the remaining 3.9% voting for various other candidates, that means that the majority (51.9%) of people wanted a candidate other than Obama. Same year, McCain won his primary with 46.7%, so again the majority did not vote for him but for various other candidates.
And I think it’s pretty safe to say that in just about any election throughout history, voters would like to replace the opposing party’s candidate if they could, no surprise there.
A really big news story would be if the majority of the party not only would replace their candidate if they could, but were actually in agreement on who they would replace them with. If 6 in 10 Democrats said “We would like to replace Biden with this one specific other person that we all agreed on” then that would be big news.
Our primary isn’t until next month, it literally means nothing.
Democratic primaries have been meaningless since 2012.
Any state after super Tuesday has no voice. I won’t vote for Biden but at this point I don’t know if I’ll just cast no vote or if there will be another option?
I mean, not just America, the entire world wishes you had gotten your shit together for this one, but land of the free/home of the brave really is just a bumper sticker slogan I guess.
Sure I’d rather vote for someone with Bernie’s politics but that’s not on the table right now. I’ll happily vote for Biden over literal christo-fascism and the destruction of our democracy any fucking time.
I’d rather vote for someone with Bernie’s politics but that’s not on the table right now
And America’s oligarchs will ensure that it never will be
Yeah, I see it as voting yes on a referendum to actually have a 2028 election.
I have a feeling that’s how all of our elections are going to be from now on.
When people we won’t vote against literal fascism because the alternative isn’t their ideal candidate then ya. Republicans have no reason to not choose a dictator as their candidate next time when the dictator this time has a legitimate chance of actually winning.
What needs to happen is for the Republicans to lose so abysmally that they see this shit isn’t going to work and they restructure and kick out the crazies.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. Lucy Parsons
Every election we will be faced with 2 shit choices, and voters are to blame for keeping it that way
Replace everyone in the house and senate if youre serious about changing anything
yea companies do this type of shit all the time
They dont do it often enough else these fuckheads that have latched onto the taxmans tit for 30/40 years wouldnt still be there.
Maybe nobody should be president and we work on ourselves for a while. Really self-actualize
John Stewart for POTUS.
I don’t care if he doesn’t want it; that just makes him more suitable.
Washington didn’t want it either. Can we force someone to be president?
