Two shortcomings:
The first is Hur’s description of Biden’s memory, which really does do Biden a bit of an injustice. The second, and more important, of the flaws is Hur’s analysis of a February 2017 comment by the then former vice president that serves as the nexus to some key evidence Hur cites for Biden’s supposed wrongdoing.
In the memory one, Hur writes about how Biden misremembers who said something back in 2009, but fails to mention that Biden corrected himself.
In the evidence one, Hur fails to give context to a quote about “documents downstairs” that is actively used in his report, arguably rendering the use of the quote intentionally misleading.
Since the transcript surfaced, many commentators have used it to suggest that the report exaggerated Biden’s memory problems. At least some of these arguments appear to be valid, at least to the extent we take the report as a broad commentary on Biden’s memory and cognitive capacity.
Either Biden is mentally sound and a giant outlier on normal human physiology at 81 years old…
Or he just doesn’t care about safe handling of classified material or the regulations everyone has to follow.
Like, regardless of what you think his mental ability is, there’s no consistent reasoning where he shouldn’t face consequences but is still capable of being president.
It can’t be both.
If he’s not mentally competent to be punished for past mistakes, how the fuck is he mentally competent to be president for another 4 more years?
There’s just no logical way both can be true.
Either Biden is mentally sound and a giant outlier on normal human physiology at 81 years old…
That’s bullshit. Dementia isn’t a normal part of aging, it’s a disease. There’s no evidence that Biden is mentally unsound.
Or he just doesn’t care about safe handling of classified material or the regulations everyone has to follow.
And after a giant amount of scrubbing, there’s zero evidence that this is true. When he found classified info at his home, he alerted the government handed it over, and supported a review of everything else in his library to make sure there wasn’t anything else. The report find no evidence at all that Biden didn’t take the responsibilities seriously.
Do you really think a VP packs and reviews everything that’s moved from his white house office to his home personally?
Do you really think a VP packs and reviews everything that’s moved from his white house office to his home personally?
Given that’s more or less what Trump did, of course Conservatives assume Democrats do it too.
Unless Trump gets charged for it nobody gives a flying fuck because this is all a bunch of fucking theater and only poor people actually get punished for violating federal law.
This is like complaining about my health while I sit on the couch eating ice cream…
Nothing’s going to change if we don’t do anything different
Can you share your education or research background that gives you such strong insight into what is “normal human physiology at 81 years old”?
Sure it can be both.
First of all, there is a world of difference between “a bit forgetful sometimes” and “mentally unsound”. It’s possible to be effective in a leadership role while being a bit fuzzy on the details.
Second of all, I think it’s well established that Presidents deal with highly classified info all the time. Given that they basically work 24/7 and all of their residential areas are also workplaces, it is virtually impossible to keep them as separate as other citizens and military personnel with clearance do. So we should not be surprised that when they are forced to move out of their government housing in a hurry, some stuff gets taken that shouldn’t.
The fundamental question is: once we get an accounting of what is missing, what happens then? Biden (and all previous Presidents and VPs, for that matter, except for one) immediately cooperated with authorities, with the intent of finding anything that was inadvertently taken and returning it. Trump stalled and whined, and came up with excuses instead of acknowledging that he might have done anything wrong, even to the point that the government needed to execute search warrants to recover it.
And this investigation, from a supposedly independant and fair investigator, had a clear agenda attached to it. Once the underlying facts get exposed, it’s clear that this was meant to be more “buttery males”. It may be that Merrick Garland’s biggest contribution was to make sure this didn’t get released in October.
Second of all, I think it’s well established that Presidents deal with highly classified info all the time. Given that they basically work 24/7 and all of their residential areas are also workplaces, it is virtually impossible to keep them as separate as other citizens and military personnel with clearance do. So we should not be surprised that when they are forced to move out of their government housing in a hurry,
This was documents from when he was VP…
And he still had them after he was no longer VP.
He wasn’t going to be Hillary’s or Trump’s VP, and the election was months before turnover anyways…
I’m not saying Biden wasn’t surprised he had to move out of the White House, but a rational person would have known if he wasn’t the VP candidate for anyone running for president in 2016, that he wasn’t going to be vice preyin 2017.
Or the movers missed some boxes. And then when it was realized they were immediately turned over.
Which is important to keep in mind since people keep trying to equate ‘oops, here you go’ by Biden with Trump’s intentional refusal to turn over documents leading to it being necessary to have his home searched with a warrant and then claiming the documents were really his.
And that’s the real difference. The law is about “willful retention” not “possession”.
Biden is not in trouble, because he cooperated and turned everything over that was found.
Trump is in trouble, because he lied repeatedly about having documents and where they were stored, so much so that even his lawyers wouldn’t swear that everything had been turned over.
Biden literally could have Alzheimer’s and it wouldn’t fucking matter, as long as he didn’t “willfully retain” any documents. Any talk about his memory is a distraction from the point that Trump actively tried to keep national secrets.
And then when it was realized
You think he just happened to stumble on them?
Or you think when he was saying how big of a deal it was trump did the same thing, he thought it would be a good idea to check his own garage?
It was a big issue when trump did it, and it’s a big issue when Biden did it.
But your missing the point that they recommended no charges against Biden due to his age and memory problems.
And now we’re saying Biden in 4 years will somehow still be spared the normal effects of aging.
He didn’t stumble upon them at all. The records department or whatever its official name is said hey we’re missing these documents and think you have them is that the case? And then Biden, but most likely a housekeeper or someone because yes Biden is still an oligarch, found them tucked away and gave them back. Trump was asked by the same people where all these documents were and he said he didn’t have them, hid them, then was busted for having them, claimed he now had the right to have them etc etc.
Edit: oh and the memory and stuff was obviously a side note and partisan dog by Hur. There’s are no charges against Biden because it wasn’t a crime.
He left them unattended in a university office…
They were found when he moved his stuff out of that office.
I’ve linked the PBS timeline in this thread
Either he didn’t think he’d be caught, didn’t give a fuck, or just isn’t mentally competent.
Pence too?
Obviously you are a troll or a common shill.Pence too?
Yes. As crazy as it sounds, some people don’t think party matters when crime happens…
They think everyone should face consequences
Either he didn’t think he’d be caught, didn’t give a fuck, or just isn’t mentally competent.
There is a fourth option: he’s human, and shit happens.
While he knew he was leaving the VP’s residence regardless, he was the legit VP right up until noon on Inauguration day and still had to handle the material as part of his job right up to that day.
The point I am trying to make is that Biden handled this just as any other top official has: immediately figure out what needed to be returned and return it voluntarily.
Trump is the outlier not because he happened to hold materials, but because of his total disdain for any other person telling him what to do.
Hur went way beyond his duty to figure out whether Biden’s transgressions were severe enough to be charged, and went into value judgements that had nothing to do with the matter at hand.
immediately
Immediately?
It was over five years later…
So, to be clear, you’re saying Biden completely forgot about this stuff for five years?
Trump is the outlier not because he happened to hold materials, but because of his total disdain for any other person telling him what to do.
No, trump wanted to be the one to determine if there was anymore. He lost and the FBI checked.
Biden has his lawyers check, and then (to my knowledge) the FBI didn’t search Biden’s areas.
That’s the difference. When trump did it, we all agreed he couldn’t be trusted.
When Biden did it, suddenly we could take someone’s word, when they kept talking about potential investigations, suddenly Biden and trump both claimed they just found more and turned those over after saying there wasn’t more.
But FBI still searched Trump’s property, I don’t think the FBI ever searched Biden.
Am I saying they were equally bad?
Nope.
I’m saying that they both broke serious regulations. And I don’t give a fuck if one has the right letter by their name.
Consequences should be the same regardless of who I agree with more.
So, to be clear, you’re saying Biden completely forgot about this stuff for five years?
I still have a few boxes that are packed from the last time I moved, and that was much more than 5 years ago. I’m sure I’ll get to looking at them someday.
If any of those boxes contained classified documents and you weren’t an already established politician you’d be Chelsea Manning’d into years of solitary confinement though.
True, but this is where Presidents and VPs get some special treatment, because so much of their work involves classified materials, they are “working” 24/7, and have no practical way to separate their personal and workplace spaces. So it is logistically much easier for them to simply retain something they shouldn’t have by putting it in the wrong pile. Manning, on the other hand, had a clear space where they needed to interact with that info, separate from their personal space. There are far more controls in place for someone at Manning’s level than for the VP or President.
That doesn’t mean breaches shouldn’t be taken seriously at the highest levels, but they do get the benefit of the doubt.
Eh, maybe because I have to take annual training on the handling of classified materials, but I don’t just mix em up with bowling trophies.
And the stuff I deal with is way less important and confidential, obviously
Maybe if it makes a difference if you live on the grounds of the US Naval Observatory and your official residence is also a place authorized to hold all that information. That makes it more likely to mix it up with your old Amtrak ticket stubs.
