I was already dubious about upgrading from 10 to 11 and this is final straw. I will have to look at Linux options and see if my Windows-only programs will run effectively under WINE.
you should also have a look at alternatives as well.
Especially if you do any kind of productivity work. Like video editing or photo editing. Photoshop and premiere are just absolute garbage, even if it requires you relearning an interface, not being pestered with creative cloud is a massive advantage.
Oh and not having to pay for colors. That one is also pretty funny.
Turns out one of the video-editing programs I use (VideoRedo) has shut down anyway (I think the owner passed away) and so I’ll need to look for an alternative anyway - I don’t think I can activate it on new machines anymore.
there are certainly a few options. I’ve been using flowblade as of late, seems to explode saving projects when you update to a new version, and use an old project, for some reason. Other than that it’s been perfectly fine.
I hear people like kdenlive, idk, it seems alright. There’s also the free tier of davinci resolve. And im sure a few others.
If they’re games, protondb (.com) will tell you how well you can expect them to run. Other stuff, it’s often a case of search the web or try and see. Wine takes some getting used to, you’ll probably have to get your hands dirty and do a little learning.
Good to know. I don’t play many games, but do have some older ones from GoG that would be nice to keep.
Probably a good starting place would be to take the three apps you need most, and just search the web for guides to running them on Linux. That’ll give you an indication of how much work you might/not be in for.
e: also if a guide says “just run this shell script” even chance it’s not just that simple.
In the article all apps mentioned are very old versions. I just don’t understand, how exactly this was a final straw for you?
Because they shouldn’t be doing this at all. The versions of the apps in question, and even which specific apps, are complete irrelevant.
Because clickbait headlines are surprisingly effective.
I’m sure you’re aware of it already, but WineHQ provides a good overview over which software runs well under WINE. :)
I’m fucking out. I do a lot of basic IT work, including many fresh installs and new domain users, and I am so godamn sick of having to go through 5 dialogues every single time I open edge. For the local account. Then the domain admin account. Then the domain user account. Fuck this company.
As soon as I can afford to get an AMD GPU or do a swap with someone for my 1070, I’m gone. I used to love computers, but dealing with windows even on a home PC with no “problems”, it just feels like more work.
Pop!OS has pretty good nvidia support. Try a dual boot.
I’m going AMD next as well, pop wouldn’t run games on my 3080, finally got some running on endeavourOS currently but pop and fedora had lots of issues.
PopOS has been running games fine on my 3070 for many years at this point. It might be worth another try.
I just tried in February but could be because of the protocol either Wayland or X11, I run 2 1440p 144hz monitors and I think Wayland struggles with that. Have had better luck with arch and KDE x11
You can do it with an Nvidia GPU too, you don’t have to switch cards. I’m not sure where this idea comes from, that Nvidia doesn’t work on Linux, 50-60% of users are on Nvidia according to Steam.
It’s because out of the box there’s often issues. For example, my setup with a 3080 booted to a black screen at login. Only futzing in the command prompt via grub let me install the correct driver, and it’s been fine ever since then.
All drivers have to deal with fbdev and EFI DRM shenanigans and there’s no simple solution (if you insist on hiding boot messages behind pretty graphics, or having a graphical console, which most distros do unfortunately, God forbid you should kernel and system messages for 3 seconds).
Until the ancient fbdev stuff will finally be completely obsolete it’s all about compromise. Most often the distro will have a working default, in some corner cases it will backfire. Personally I set my console to text only so I don’t have to deal with any of this.
TLDR it can happen, and not necessarily on Nvidia.
oh for what it’s worth. I’ve been using my 1070 under arch with nvidia drivers for years now. It’s problematic sometimes, and configuration is a mess. But it generally works perfectly fine.
It’ll work more than well enough just to test the waters in linux though.
although, to be clear, i am still on X, i hear it’s worse on wayland. But I’d say X is worthwhile if you’re savvy enough. It’s an interesting piece of software history. (and it rarely updates)
This seems promising, do you have any resources I can check out to accomplish the switch? I’ve used some Linux, mostly Debian, so really don’t think it would be all that tough to go through.
You can disable or streamline that stuff with either group policy or registry keys.
I used to do the same work (several years ago) and I started researching fixes and writing scripts to speed up my work.
Make a to do list of what your computer setup process is. Figure out the earliest you can launch a script (netshare or usb). Then start writing scripts for your tasks.
Installing apps, file transfers and system configs.
or you could just use linux.
Sounds like the same level of effort, and it doesn’t try and fight you every possible step of the way.
As mentioned above, this is corporate work and it’s not as easy to sell as Microsoft
At that point why not run a WDS
Because you’re a level 1~2 technician hired in to support an enterprise windows environment and you have no choice.
Hit the nail on the fucking head.
Unfortunately our setup is not that sophisticated and neither am I. It’s a goal we’re working toward, but we’re just caught in a loop doing archaic shit because the workload is too high to fix it.
That seems like a lot of convoluted bullshit just to get your os to work, considering you need to update the whole thing every week.
You sure you haven’t tried arch? Openbsd? You sound like a typical user.
I’m talking about supporting an American enterprise environment that handles medical patient data. No Linux workstations really. Easier to comply with HIPAA that way.
Is it convoluted BS? Sure why not. But Microsoft services are really sticky once you get integrated at a large scale (5k workstations plus over 100 servers).
And when they withdraw support for that feature, do you think laws will cause all the computers to crash?
Check out alternativeto.net
Thanks, will do!
What apps and links please? Just so I know what not to download.
::: (Yes I know its in the article…) :::
ConisioAdmin.exe (Solidworks PDM) EaseUS Disk Copy.exe (EaseUS Disk Copy Application) ep_dwm.exe (ExplorerPatcher) Included since 22H2 iCloudServices.exe (iCloud files shared in Explorer via WhatsApp) from 23H2 RadeonSoftware.exe (AMD GPU perf settings) from23H2 StartAllBackCfg.exe (StartAllBack) Included since 22H2 Multi-mon + Copilot (Microsoft) MergeSdb (Microsoft) Intel IntcOED.sys (Intel) Intel IntcAudioBus.sys (Intel) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\IntcAudioBus.sys) Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter (Realtek) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\RTL8192su.sys)Huh, I didnt expect to see Intel or Realtek stuff in there.
The iCloud one is funny and oddly specific. Its like a “fuck you for using both Apple and Facebook crap”
I’m just surprised their blocking their own software.
Wow, imagine using a corporate owned operating system.
Laughs in Ubuntu
You misspelled Fedora
Wait… canonical?
Best Canon event ever. Using Ubuntu to escape macroshit’s garbage
Haha probably so. But they are a corporation
You misspelled Arch.
You misspelled SteamOS
laughs in another corporate OS?
Wouldn’t it be nice if you could just keep using Windows 10 forever, and get security updates for free?
For reference: Debian 6 which was the current release of Debian at the time Windows 10 was released hasn’t received official security patches 2016, CentOS 6.6 stopped receiving them 2022. Mac OS X Yosemite latest update was released 2017…
the cool thing about debian though, you can just reinstall that shit. Or if you like flying close to the sun. Just change your apt sources. And hope nothing explodes.
My vps was two Debian versions late and both upgrade went super smooth. Did it fromy damn phone even.
i imagine it’s a bit of gamble sometimes, depends on how much software was deprecated changed or moved around, a lot can happen in a support period. Regardless spinning up a new install in an automated manner should be relatively trivial, and probably something anyone can accomplish for backup purposes.
Yeah and? Debian is free, you can just upgrade to the newer version without paying a thing.
It seems worthwhile to set realistic expectations.
You can also upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 for free.
No, actually, extra ads begging me to subscribe to my own computer are a cost.
would you like to explain to me how i install a tpm 2.0 module into my hardware for free exactly?
I cannot use my win11 laptop because they removed the language bar and switching keyboard layout is impossible. Unfortunately it’s something that I do on the regular since programming in my native layout is really difficult hunting down alt+some numbers for the {} and I need letters with accents like žšć when I write something
downgrade*
And upgrades tend to be pretty stable. You can still use whatever UX you were used to before, since packages tend to stick around quite a bit.
The issue with Win 11 is that it drastically changes hardware requirements and UX. That’s not an issue for Debian.
And because linux is 99% just the programs you install on it when you do upgrade to a new version you aren’t being forced into a new system. This is why distro wars are pointless.
Windows 10 was released on July 29, 2015, Debian 8 was released on 26 April 2015, 3 months earlier. And you are comparing it with Debian 6, released 4 years earlier? Debian 8 extended long term support reaches end-of-life 30 June 2025.
You are right. I misinterpreted the information on wiki page. Debian 8’s free LTS tier ended 2020 and the Extended LTS continues until 2025. Extended support is a paid service though and costs a lot more than a single Windows license. Microsoft offers a similar (also paid) service.
It’s comparing apples to oranges, that said, the current version of Debian is much closer to the UX of Debian 6 than windows 11 is to windows 10
If the point of windows is you’re paying for an operating system and should then have better support than a free alternative, they should be able to push security updates, especially if they’re already committed to ensuring old windows app can still run inside new windows
Mac OS is Apple to oranges against windows when it comes to OS support?
Conveniently skipped that part and focused on Debian…
No, it’s not apples to oranges because Mac and windows are both paid support.
If you want to compare apples to apples, then sure, Mac is better than windows. That’s a low bar to beat though. I was comparing apples to oranges, which was a comparison in paid vs free support.
But yes, macs desktop environment and user experience hasn’t taken half as much of a dump as windows. But they’re also based on Linux, and don’t have to make the same commitments windows does
macOS is not based on Linux, it’s based on FreeBSD (and other BSD) userspace and the Mach kernel. AFAIK, there isn’t any Linux code there.
They did provide security updates for several years longer than any competitor. Even (or especially depending on your point of view) for a company like Microsoft a user shouldn’t expect updates indefinitely at least not for the normal retail price.
And to be clear: I also don’t want to blame any of the named Linux distros. I recently migrated an old CentOS 6 server and it was about time. Sure there were still some security updates but several software components hadn’t received updates for years and there were a lot of workarounds necessary to keep the thing in a somewhat decent and modern state.
windows 10 was meant to be the last version of windows, its a bit disingenuous to compare the two that way
Ughh i hate reading this hoax. W10 was never the last version of windows. It’s a paraphrased report of one engineer at Microsoft that said that, but it was never in any official capacity confirmed
The Verge asked a rep at Microsoft, and this is what they said:
When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon’s comments, the company didn’t dismiss them at all. “Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
So they didn’t rule out branding changes, but the changes to Win 11 seem like a pretty big change from Win 10, which seems to go against the “Windows will be delivered as a service” statement. So it’s not just that one engineer, but probably a broader push (that may have been delayed or scrapped) to push gradual updates consistently instead of larger, periodic updates. I’m no expert, but I didn’t really see much difference in how Win 10 was released vs previous versions (e.g. XP, 7, and 10 all had service packs).
Wasn’t the entire point of not using “Windows 9” branding and instead going straight to “Windows 10” from 8 that they didn’t want the last version of Windows to be 9, that they preferred a nice round number.
No. The point was they didn’t want issues from badly written software that used a “windows 9*” string to check for 95/98
frankly as long as my windows 10 license is valid in windows 11, i couldn’t care less.
But you still wouldn’t find me using windows 11.
well the way they stopped making new windows versions after 10 (until now) seems to indicate that was the plan
W11 released like any other lifecycle, huff copium dude
no, i mean i believed that was the plan because they released a new version every 3 years, and then stopped for 10 years
Hahahahahaha, and you believe this?
7 was better lol
Full list from this comment on another thread: https://lemmy.ca/comment/8470544
ConisioAdmin.exe (Solidworks PDM)
EaseUS Disk Copy.exe (EaseUS Disk Copy Application)
ep_dwm.exe (ExplorerPatcher) Included since 22H2
iCloudServices.exe (iCloud files shared in Explorer via WhatsApp) from 23H2
RadeonSoftware.exe (AMD GPU perf settings) from23H2
StartAllBackCfg.exe (StartAllBack) Included since 22H2
Multi-mon + Copilot (Microsoft)
MergeSdb (Microsoft)
Intel IntcOED.sys (Intel)
Intel IntcAudioBus.sys (Intel) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\IntcAudioBus.sys)
Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter (Realtek) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\RTL8192su.sys)
Hmm, interesting, do these all have explorer integrations? I know even a couple year’s old SolidWorks PDM does not work with Windows 11 because of the way it integrates with Windows explorer. a couple of the other apps there modify/integrate into explorer as well.
Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter
Wow, how did they break that? Signing issue maybe?
They won’t give you updates if you have radeon software or intel config tool?
Or software made by Microsoft themselves!
The article says it’s only a specific Win7 version of VLC that’s blocked, so maybe that’s the case with these also.
Ok, so a newer version should be fine I guess. If that’s the case, the title should be: “If you’re still running these prehistoric software, Windows won’t be able to update“
i’m still not really sure why this would matter. Does updating break that software? Seems like an easy fix.
That was a weird article. The simplest fix would be to keep your apps updated.
Although, in typical MS style, the error message will probably be either vague and cryptic or otherwise completely useless. If you stumble upon an update problem like this, troubleshooting it doesn’t sound fun.
ah right, yeah, that part of microsoft, i forgot about that one.
But… clickbait and drama~~~
You should know people only read headlines!
Yeah, and the headline is supposed to maximize the clicks, along with your fear, hatred and rage.
Too late. People in comment section already decided to install Linux
good
Can’t complain about that conclusion either. It fixes all your Windows problems once and for all.
But doesn’t solve your Linux problems
😂 true
Will it stop asking me to upgrade every month if I have one of these installed? I might need to get one just for that.
I feel bad for Windows users, they just can’t catch a break can they?
It was already bad enough that we’re stuck trying to use a trash OS to run our games and soul-sucking corporate crap, but now we have to ditch our customization tools to get updates that we need?
Thank goodness I mostly just use Linux.
If only others had access to Linux, I really feel bad for them. :)
Why are people still using Windows? Seems to me that the pain to use it is still not big enough. I welcome every move that increases the pain and drives people to better options.
Because Revit and OpenRoads designer doesn’t work on Linux. And neither of my RMMs work for Linux.
As I tell everyone who comes up with this kind of takes. This is not Linux’s fault or responsibility. This is the specific app developer’s fault.
No one screams at Google because iMessage doesn’t run on Android, that would be madness. For every software package or app that doesn’t run on Linux, there’s usually several dozen alternatives that do. If you don’t like them and want to stick with the ones you like and also try to use Linux? the move is to call out the app developers. Tell them that you want Linux support, a Linux build and to please work on that.
There’s zero, absolutely nothing, nothing at all, that the developers of a OS kernel, or the maintainers of a distribution can do to force other’s app to support the OS they work on.
The most we can do is offer compatibility layers like Wine that can run some Windows only software. And they can go pretty far, like Proton, which can run most games. But still there’s only so much these can do. The tooling, build libraries, compilation chain, everything that exist to make an app for Windows has its counterparts for Linux. It usually only takes a couple of afternoons tinkering with config files to get a project to compile for Linux. With almost no change to the code base itself. The community usually does the bulk of the distribution part, making Flatpaks, or setting up the package for the repositories. Even then, making a RPM or DEB file is also a no-brainer. So, if your favorite app doesn’t exist in Linux, it is because the developer either made the conscious decision of not supporting, or no one has ever told them that they want one, so they haven’t considered it. Sometimes they deliberately make their app impossible to function on Linux, it happens, they have explicit code in their software that detects things like Wine to sabotage the OS.
The move is to write to your favorite app’s developers, complaining on social media does nothing, we literally can’t do anything for you.
Obviously. I’m just pointing out the issues with those kind of smoothbrained, “everyone should use Linux because I said so and the whole world is black and white”, kind of takes I see all the time on this site.
I wonder why you are being downvoted, it’s literally how this works.
There is no substitute for Revit on Linux. Autodesk won’t even bring it to MacOS, which is what many architects prefer. People have been asking them for years to develop for other operating systems and they don’t give a shit. The person you responded to wasn’t blaming anyone for autodesk not supporting Linux. They were answering the question of why they still use it. I use Revit every day for work and I would wipe windows from my work pc in a second if there were an alternative. I’m working on a $300m project right now where it specifically states in the contract that we must use Revit so until autodesk decides to support it or goes fully browser based, we are screwed.
That still doesn’t stop you from using Linux or macos on your private devices. I’m also forced to use awful software at work but that’s I call a fraction of my salary pain money (Schmerzensgeld). That’s fine. If it is enough I’m willing to deal with Microsoft, Autodesk and the like. But in my personal life. I have the choice and I would never use it if I don’t like it.
This, 100%. Autodesk has full industries by the balls and just laughing their way to the bank.
Zero fucks for their user base and bloated buggy software. We would ditch them in an instant if AutoCAD wasn’t required for prints.
You can still dual boot or use virtual machines in your private devices. It’s the usual workaround for people who are forced to use one particular incompatible app. That fact is literally not what’s stopping you from using Linux. It’s only stopping from using Revit on Linux, but again, that’s not on Linux, there’s nothing any of us can do, take your grievances with Autodesk. This fact doesn’t forbids you nor does it prevent you from using Linux for everything else.
Doesn’t change that it’s not supported by Autodesk.
And? If it works it works, who cares if it’s officially supported or not. A large amount of stuff is supported by the community on Linux as is. Makes no difference.
My licensing agreement at my 1,000 person firm cares if it’s officially supported or not.
Sounds like a them problem.
My job includes programming devices from manufacturers that only write their software for Windows. There are entire industries that are blind to anything but Windows due to lock-in from one or more manufacturers of devices needed for daily operations.
Some consumer products are similarly locked-in due to supporting software. There may be alternatives for common tools, but device-specific things simply won’t work on Linux, 90% of the time. Sure, we can request the manufacturer support Linux in some way, but good luck getting any response let alone a working port.
Edit: Yes, it may be becoming more painful to use Windows, but until it’s less painful to take the Linux path for viable alternatives, nothing will change.
The Linux or macos path, if there is one is always less painful.
If there isn’t one, if the a manufacturer doesn’t support other os’ then you should demand this support from them. They will only listen to money. So take your money to an alternative or offer money for the support.
The point is that it’s not Linux’ fault that program x is not natively supported on Linux. It’s the programs fault and partly yours/your employers for choosing it.
No one has said it’s Linux’s fault… But unfortunately it’s still an issue Linux users have to deal with.
Also, not everyone is the CTO of their company to demand other suppliers. Most people are stuck with company policy that they have absolutely no say in it. Companies are not democracies.
I do have 3 of it 😁
Can’t you disable SmartSense or whatever bullshit there is that scans
appsprograms when they’re installed?Probably but they certainly don’t want you to know that and almost certainly will say that you can’t.
Why?
I assume because said apps and drivers break if the OS is updated.
That’s what I assumed but why would an is update break WO many things are they deprecating parts of the windows kernel?
If it is anything like Linux, those drivers are likely unsigned by the packager and they are a vulnerability for secure boot and your UEFI bootloader.
Like if someone did the same type of attack as the XZ compression utility in Linux recently; where a benign looking file is modified and another is equally altered within the package so that the total file size does not change. That kind of attack is not possible with a signed kernel module/driver.
That is the only thing I can think of that would tie all of these elements together. They could all be accessing something in kernel space using an unsigned driver.
That kind of attack is not possible with a signed kernel module/driver.
How is using a compromised userspace library not possible with a signed kernel module?
That aside, if the events would unfold similarly, the software requiring to be signed would be, in fact, signed.
An awfully stupid comment TBF. As if you desperately tried to defend MS. EDIT: Sorry, that was just my irritation.
WUMT was good to me.
This stops Windows 11 from blocking the installation and lets you get the app back onto your PC. We’re not sure if Microsoft has fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep using your favorite apps.
That’s mildly distopian.
This prevents your car from shutting itself off when trying visit certain areas on the map. We’re not sure if car manufacturers have fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep going to your favorite places.
And only a little tiny bit adversarial.
This is what ive been saying about windows vs Linux for years.
Windows is PvP, and now I’m seeing fucking Hangul characters in chat, and I’m afraid. I don’t even use it anymore.
Hangul characters in chat
You’re afraid of Korean speakers?
In a cafe? No. In a video game lobby? I played way too much StarCraft.
Lol. :)
My wife is Korean and I noped out of playing StarCraft when I visited her family. I also worked with a “minor-league” StarCraft player (played on Euro servers with a team) and a regular Korean guy, and it was always close when we’d do lan games at work afterhours (us normies would die off early and watch as those two duked it out).
So yeah, I get it. Koreans are hardcore…
So, wait, Mocrosoft is finally giving us a way to fully-disable automatic Windows Updates?
/s
Mocrosoft
Do you speak Russian? Cause the first part sounds like “wet” with o and the second as if related to sticking something somewhere.
Or the more simple explanation: o is right next to i on most keyboards.
That’s how I read it!
Glad they have time to call out everyone else’s problems, yet Microsoft still can’t fix their broken jan win 10 update.
Is that the one where MS updated the recovery partition by including a file that’s too big for that default partition? I had to manually resize my recovery partition to fix that issue
Yes. Normally, the OS “fixes” this by making a second, bigger recovery partition, but that only works if you have the space for.
Well I guess 60 GB wasn’t enough space for the 10mb update
probably requires you to have un-allocated space on the drive, which is even funnier.
don’t worry, microsoft never figured out how to write bootloader installation software.
It can not only, install itself onto a slower, hdd, but also completely wipe any additional drives you have hooked up at the time of installation.
The fact that this STILL isn’t fixed is baffling to me.
Is this still an issue with UEFI nowadays? The other bootloader should still be selectable in the bootmenu if it wasn’t overwritten.
Havent updated my v10 for 3+ years and dont plan to
