That question goes just as much for you as it does for anyone else here, and my thoughts here is that you can’t do it.
I’m all for holding the Democrats accountable and pushing them Left, but as long as the US is a right-of-centre country, it’s going to be an uphill battle, and there are plenty of “I don’t like Trump as a person, but I like Democrats policies worse, so I’ll vote for the asshole” votes out there, even more than there are ‘Dems aren’t left enough for me!’ votes. I don’t fault the Dems for trying to appeal to those, and push the ‘I don’t like Trump as a person’ higher than the ‘I like Dem policies less’. But man, Biden/Harris has been fighting for issues close to me; Climate Change, Minority Rights, Student Loan reforms, and Women’s rights.
And Biden is doing all of this in the face of stiff and unified opposition by Team Red. They WANT him to fail, and want anyone Left of them (which includes distractions like the Greens and Socialists) to utterly fail. And they are not above convincing our own voters that the failure is inside the house when it’s really imposed on us by the Republicans.
There is a fact for this election, that has been a fact nation-wide since the founding of this country. One of two parties will win. It used to be the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, then the Democratic-Republicans and the Whigs, and finally, the Republicans and the Democrats, which has been a constant through another four phases of American politics. Nobody has come close to upsetting this system after the death of the Whigs and birth of the Republican party.
Jill Stein has a probability of winning the election of less than 0.1% according to 538 and other poll agrigators. She hasn’t taken more than 10% in a single poll, let alone more than Trump’s share. Despite her party’s perennial status as a contender for the Presidency, that party hasn’t won 10% in a single state in a single election, let alone gotten an EV, to say nothing of coming close to 270 EVs which it takes to win the Presidency. No one else has, either, in the past 20 years. You have to go to 1992 to see anyone win more than 10% with Ross Perot, who poached 9.8m votes from team Red compared to the previous election and created roughly another 10m votes for himself (while Clinton picked up 3 million more than Dukakkis). And despite this 18% vote count, Perot got NO EVs, because he couldn’t close the gap in a single state over the winner. And that’s the challenge all Third Party candidates have.
Let’s get real here. You will see one of two people take the Oath of Office next January. That person won’t be Stein. It won’t be Oliver. Alas, it won’t even be my personal favourite, Vermin Supreme. One of those people’s names will be Kamala Harris. The other will be Donald Trump. There. Are. No. Other. Options. FPTP. It sucks, but it’s what we got.
I personally think that I can have a conversation with Kamala Harris. She’s the bus that gets me closest to where I want to go. I don’t love her, but I don’t have to (and really shouldn’t as that would piss my wife off…). I just need her in office instead of the other choice.
Trump is not somebody I can have a conversation with. He goes nowhere near where I want to go. I’d rather take the bus to Boulder than Colorado Springs for a variety of reasons.
If you are like me and don’t want Trump in office, there is only one choice under our system of government to ensure that doesn’t happen. Hold your nose and vote Kamala Harris. Hopefully you showed up to the Primaries to vote for the most Leftist Democrat, because THAT is how you influence the government. Vote for the Liberal in the primary and the Democrat in the General. That’s how the Tea Party captured the Republican Party and turned it MAGA. And that’s how you’re going to inject some Green into the Blue.
But if you don’t want Harris in office, you can go get fucked, because that means you want Trump in office. Fuck off with that and get lost.
You can still vote for someone even if you think we deserve a better candidate, I’ve been doing it for decades at this point…
There’s no reason to insult people or act like you can’t criticize the least worst option while still holding your nose and voting for them.
The majority of Dem voters shouldn’t be shocked by that. We’ve been doing it for a long time…
I can count the people I know who wanted Biden or Hillary as president on one hand but virtually everyone i know still voted for both of them in the last two elections.
It would just be a lot easier to stop trump if we ran a candidate that Dem voters wanted to be president.
I think there’s a time and a place for criticizing our candidates. The time is during the candidate’s term and in the Primaries. During the General, it’s a bad time to do so. And you have to realise: You don’t always get what you want. You say you want a candidate that Dem voters want to be President. The opportunity for that to happen is in the primaries. Unfortunately, the time for that has come and gone.
Biden won those primaries. The voters for the Democratic Party, who ALL get a say, put Biden up front. And people hammered Biden, including bad actors from the other party as well as from foreign countries, until Biden had no room for error. When he flubbed the first debate, we used the rules for succession, with him stepping down and his VP taking the top spot, like what would happen if he was rendered incapable of serving while he was in office.
I return to my key point. Trump or Harris are our choices today. No Third Party will win. As long as you are voting for Harris, criticise away. Just know that I will push back against any post that seems to suggest our candidate is horribad and shouldn’t be voted for. Not voting for Harris means we get Trump.
The time is during the candidate’s term and in the Primaries.
You think we had a primary?
And during their term? That’s like saying the best time to negotiate price is after the sale is made…
Your view only makes sense if you’re operating under the assumption the candidate won’t listen to any criticism or adjust their policy to align with Dem voters more and maximize their chances of winning the election.
Biden isn’t the candidate anymore, Harris certainly isn’t perfect but I believe she’s at least willing to open a dialog with Dem voters, even after the shit that was pulled at the DNC where she did the opposite.
Dem voters aren’t Republican voters, telling them to shut up and vote D depresses turnout, what improves Dem turnout is the candidate listening to voters so that they feel part of the party and more likely to support the candidate, even if the candidates position doesn’t change.
It’s really as easy as that to boost Dem turnout.
It’s only bad for the Dem candidate if they act like a spoiled toddler who’s told there’s no ice cream till the vegetables are gone
Yeah…I thought you might be reasonable, but this? This proves you aren’t reasonable.
Dear reader. We did have a primary. We even had a choice between RFK Jr., Marianne Williamson, Jason Palmer, and Dean Philips. Polling showed Joe Biden with a 60% margin (not vote share, MARGIN) before the Primaries, and he won a total of 14.47 million votes, for 87.1% of the vote share. 3905 pledged delegates voted for him. The second biggest share of the vote was Uncommitted, who could only muster 37 delegates and 4.25% of the vote. Democracy had its day, and unlike givesomefucks here, I’m not going to dismiss the results.
Biden dropped out because elements of our voting coalition combined with bad actors from the Republican Party and Russia and hammered him on his age and capability. He had a bad debate night, seeming to give those elements justification and he ended up throwing in the towel. Since he won the nomination, thanks to a variety of reasons ranging from ballot access and campaign contributions, Harris was elevated to his position and continued the ticket. You know, exactly what would happen if that MAGA idiot had gotten to Biden before he got to Trump and didn’t miss? Just sayin!
Yes, folks. We do have to hold our tongues and noses and vote for the Democrat. It is that simple. 2000 and 2016 are perfect examples of what happens when we don’t. We have to accept that this country is not friendly to liberals and leftists. 1968, 1980, and 1984 made that clear. All elections are about who you can have a conversation with. Everyone who thought Gore was boring and two-faced, myself included (I didn’t vote in the 2000 election because I bought Nader’s Both Sides Bad bullshit) got an object lesson in the Lesser of Two Evils when Bush won and basically ran the country into the ground. Yes, our time to influence the Democratic Party is in the Primaries, with data taken from the candidate’s term – every broken promise, every sellout, every capitulation. But there also needs to be a bit of reason taken as well. Biden has tried like three times to deal with Student Loan debt. Each time, Republicans have thwarted him, enabled by the people who thought Obama wasn’t Liberal enough who stayed home in 2010 and 2014, and the people who stayed home or voted third party in 2016, demonstrating that they’d rather have Trump than Clinton.
That question goes just as much for you as it does for anyone else here, and my thoughts here is that you can’t do it.
I’m all for holding the Democrats accountable and pushing them Left, but as long as the US is a right-of-centre country, it’s going to be an uphill battle, and there are plenty of “I don’t like Trump as a person, but I like Democrats policies worse, so I’ll vote for the asshole” votes out there, even more than there are ‘Dems aren’t left enough for me!’ votes. I don’t fault the Dems for trying to appeal to those, and push the ‘I don’t like Trump as a person’ higher than the ‘I like Dem policies less’. But man, Biden/Harris has been fighting for issues close to me; Climate Change, Minority Rights, Student Loan reforms, and Women’s rights.
And Biden is doing all of this in the face of stiff and unified opposition by Team Red. They WANT him to fail, and want anyone Left of them (which includes distractions like the Greens and Socialists) to utterly fail. And they are not above convincing our own voters that the failure is inside the house when it’s really imposed on us by the Republicans.
There is a fact for this election, that has been a fact nation-wide since the founding of this country. One of two parties will win. It used to be the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, then the Democratic-Republicans and the Whigs, and finally, the Republicans and the Democrats, which has been a constant through another four phases of American politics. Nobody has come close to upsetting this system after the death of the Whigs and birth of the Republican party.
Jill Stein has a probability of winning the election of less than 0.1% according to 538 and other poll agrigators. She hasn’t taken more than 10% in a single poll, let alone more than Trump’s share. Despite her party’s perennial status as a contender for the Presidency, that party hasn’t won 10% in a single state in a single election, let alone gotten an EV, to say nothing of coming close to 270 EVs which it takes to win the Presidency. No one else has, either, in the past 20 years. You have to go to 1992 to see anyone win more than 10% with Ross Perot, who poached 9.8m votes from team Red compared to the previous election and created roughly another 10m votes for himself (while Clinton picked up 3 million more than Dukakkis). And despite this 18% vote count, Perot got NO EVs, because he couldn’t close the gap in a single state over the winner. And that’s the challenge all Third Party candidates have.
Let’s get real here. You will see one of two people take the Oath of Office next January. That person won’t be Stein. It won’t be Oliver. Alas, it won’t even be my personal favourite, Vermin Supreme. One of those people’s names will be Kamala Harris. The other will be Donald Trump. There. Are. No. Other. Options. FPTP. It sucks, but it’s what we got.
I personally think that I can have a conversation with Kamala Harris. She’s the bus that gets me closest to where I want to go. I don’t love her, but I don’t have to (and really shouldn’t as that would piss my wife off…). I just need her in office instead of the other choice.
Trump is not somebody I can have a conversation with. He goes nowhere near where I want to go. I’d rather take the bus to Boulder than Colorado Springs for a variety of reasons.
If you are like me and don’t want Trump in office, there is only one choice under our system of government to ensure that doesn’t happen. Hold your nose and vote Kamala Harris. Hopefully you showed up to the Primaries to vote for the most Leftist Democrat, because THAT is how you influence the government. Vote for the Liberal in the primary and the Democrat in the General. That’s how the Tea Party captured the Republican Party and turned it MAGA. And that’s how you’re going to inject some Green into the Blue.
But if you don’t want Harris in office, you can go get fucked, because that means you want Trump in office. Fuck off with that and get lost.
You can still vote for someone even if you think we deserve a better candidate, I’ve been doing it for decades at this point…
There’s no reason to insult people or act like you can’t criticize the least worst option while still holding your nose and voting for them.
The majority of Dem voters shouldn’t be shocked by that. We’ve been doing it for a long time…
I can count the people I know who wanted Biden or Hillary as president on one hand but virtually everyone i know still voted for both of them in the last two elections.
It would just be a lot easier to stop trump if we ran a candidate that Dem voters wanted to be president.
That shouldn’t be a relevation either
I think there’s a time and a place for criticizing our candidates. The time is during the candidate’s term and in the Primaries. During the General, it’s a bad time to do so. And you have to realise: You don’t always get what you want. You say you want a candidate that Dem voters want to be President. The opportunity for that to happen is in the primaries. Unfortunately, the time for that has come and gone.
Biden won those primaries. The voters for the Democratic Party, who ALL get a say, put Biden up front. And people hammered Biden, including bad actors from the other party as well as from foreign countries, until Biden had no room for error. When he flubbed the first debate, we used the rules for succession, with him stepping down and his VP taking the top spot, like what would happen if he was rendered incapable of serving while he was in office.
I return to my key point. Trump or Harris are our choices today. No Third Party will win. As long as you are voting for Harris, criticise away. Just know that I will push back against any post that seems to suggest our candidate is horribad and shouldn’t be voted for. Not voting for Harris means we get Trump.
You think we had a primary?
And during their term? That’s like saying the best time to negotiate price is after the sale is made…
Your view only makes sense if you’re operating under the assumption the candidate won’t listen to any criticism or adjust their policy to align with Dem voters more and maximize their chances of winning the election.
Biden isn’t the candidate anymore, Harris certainly isn’t perfect but I believe she’s at least willing to open a dialog with Dem voters, even after the shit that was pulled at the DNC where she did the opposite.
Dem voters aren’t Republican voters, telling them to shut up and vote D depresses turnout, what improves Dem turnout is the candidate listening to voters so that they feel part of the party and more likely to support the candidate, even if the candidates position doesn’t change.
It’s really as easy as that to boost Dem turnout.
It’s only bad for the Dem candidate if they act like a spoiled toddler who’s told there’s no ice cream till the vegetables are gone
Yeah…I thought you might be reasonable, but this? This proves you aren’t reasonable.
Dear reader. We did have a primary. We even had a choice between RFK Jr., Marianne Williamson, Jason Palmer, and Dean Philips. Polling showed Joe Biden with a 60% margin (not vote share, MARGIN) before the Primaries, and he won a total of 14.47 million votes, for 87.1% of the vote share. 3905 pledged delegates voted for him. The second biggest share of the vote was Uncommitted, who could only muster 37 delegates and 4.25% of the vote. Democracy had its day, and unlike givesomefucks here, I’m not going to dismiss the results.
Biden dropped out because elements of our voting coalition combined with bad actors from the Republican Party and Russia and hammered him on his age and capability. He had a bad debate night, seeming to give those elements justification and he ended up throwing in the towel. Since he won the nomination, thanks to a variety of reasons ranging from ballot access and campaign contributions, Harris was elevated to his position and continued the ticket. You know, exactly what would happen if that MAGA idiot had gotten to Biden before he got to Trump and didn’t miss? Just sayin!
Yes, folks. We do have to hold our tongues and noses and vote for the Democrat. It is that simple. 2000 and 2016 are perfect examples of what happens when we don’t. We have to accept that this country is not friendly to liberals and leftists. 1968, 1980, and 1984 made that clear. All elections are about who you can have a conversation with. Everyone who thought Gore was boring and two-faced, myself included (I didn’t vote in the 2000 election because I bought Nader’s Both Sides Bad bullshit) got an object lesson in the Lesser of Two Evils when Bush won and basically ran the country into the ground. Yes, our time to influence the Democratic Party is in the Primaries, with data taken from the candidate’s term – every broken promise, every sellout, every capitulation. But there also needs to be a bit of reason taken as well. Biden has tried like three times to deal with Student Loan debt. Each time, Republicans have thwarted him, enabled by the people who thought Obama wasn’t Liberal enough who stayed home in 2010 and 2014, and the people who stayed home or voted third party in 2016, demonstrating that they’d rather have Trump than Clinton.
Can you try again but this time not violate this subs rules?
I didn’t bother reading the rest when the very first sentence is an insult
I just called you unreasonable. We’ll see if the mods think that’s a violation of the TOS. Have a nice life, either way.
“Unreasonable” isn’t pejorative.
“Fucking unreasonable” would be removed.
Then why was the comment removed?
It’s literally right there…
By your own admission:
That’s against civility rules.
But what I said still stands, if you try again without the civility breaking parts, I’m willing to spend some time to help you understand.