they should probably focus more on voting for Kamala Harris
Didn’t I read something somewhere about her being a Nazi or Russian spy or some shit?
Yall mfs gonna cost Universalmonk his Lada.
Gonna say, that assclown missed an article
if you live in a state with preferential voting (eg alaska, maine?) wouldn’t you be better off voting green if they represent you views better?
What states have ranked choice?
Alaska and Maine.
The Green Party, maybe. Jill Stein, with the stuff she’s been saying I am not quite sure if she would actually present your views better or if she’s an actual competent leader. Of course you can have the question of the best of the worst, but then still I’m not sure if she compares well.
ah yes the party of “wifi causes brain damage”
Good. Fuck Jill Stein. Fucking grifter loser.
What would be harassment on Lemmy (learn to take a hint already), actually makes sense on tiktok. With it’s giant, young user base, there should be someone you can convince to vote for Harris.
However, I do think getting Jill Stein’s name out there could backfire. Remember, it was the media that made trump a viable candidate.
If you’re getting convinced by anti-green rhetoric, I don’t blame you. The greens are pretty bad.
You can always vote for the party for socialism and liberation instead. They’re running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.
Or don’t vote against your own interests by voting third party. Because First Past the Post means that any third party is going to act as a Spoiler, siphoning votes away from the major party that is ideologically closest to the Spoiler.
What you should do is hold your nose and vote against the literal fascist.
Then on November 10th or so (for incumbents that win) and Jan 10th or so (for the newly elected), start writing actual letters to your congressmen, Call them, email, seek them out in person at meet and greets, and push for voting reform.
Now, the temptation will be to advocate for RCV. This is the wrong move as well. RCV is inherently broken and can actually produce worse results than First Past the Post, while also having some diehard fans who promise the fucking moon. No, if you want third parties to have any chance at all of growing and possibly winning, you need to advocate for Approval or STAR.
So remember, start pushing voting reform the second we kick the fascist to the curb. Push on day one of the new session, and keep pushing. Do the work ahead of time, and maybe, we can revisit the third party issue in the future.
there is at least one state that has implemented ranked choice voting
And again, Ranked Choice is flawed to its core. It’s the only voting system in existence that fails the monotonicity criterion. Basically it’s the only voting system in existence where you can rank someone lower and it increases their chances of winning the election.
Ranked Choice is so flawed that every place that implementes it, has a movement to repeal it. Sometimes a successful movement (Like in Burlington Vermont)
Ranked Choice is a step back and actively harms real efforts at Voting Reform.
No.
I haven’t held my nose for a democrat for going on fourteen years and I’m not going to start now.
I’m politically active far beyond voting and have spoken face to face with several representatives. They don’t care or listen.
No amount of voting reform will fix the fundamentally unjust American political system.
I have been doing the work and will continue to do so. Voting for PSL in this election is part of that work.
If you’re reading this, don’t fall for the “oh if only we had star or ranked choice” fiddlefarting around the edges garbage. We live in under a fundamentally unjust political system and especially when both major parties are advocating in support of genocide there is no reasonable argument for performing the calculus required to declare one the lesser evil.
Walk away from omelas.
I’m with you, friend. Stay strong and don’t let this community bully you into changing yourself! I support you!
[Nobody cares]
[Jill Stein is a vapid, forgettable cunt with 0 plans for governance or policy change]
[You supporting her only makes you look like the same type of human-garbage]
Hope this helps 🫶
I’m literally suggesting people vote for a party and candidate different than stein.
Did you reply to the correct comment?
it must be really nice to be privileged enough to have this viewpoint. and all for what? so you can give yourself a nice ethical pat on the back when you help siphon from the dems, and the gop comes after women and minorities? not sure what your background is but damn dude that’s some fucked up shit
Maybe they just like the GOP but don’t want to admit that they like them.
They also completely disregard the fact that the Voting System itself causes the very problems they have with the political system.
First Past the Post is 100% the reason why we vote against a party, rather than for a candidate.
That combined with the Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 have caused all sorts of problems. That too is something to advocate against. But one thing at a time.
What background do I need to have in order to be allowed to recognize that the mathematics of lesser evils don’t make any sense?
Is there some amount of subjugation I can be under that allows me to have a materialist analysis?
Literally me: Don’t encourage these scumbags, don’t wait another moment to stand up for what you know is right, voting is the easiest way to make your voice heard!
You: wow, must be nice!
If youre reading this, don’t listen to people who try to mobilize identity politics against you. They don’t know or care who you are and would hate you more if you were a minority speaking out.
What background do I need to have in order to be allowed to recognize that the mathematics of lesser evils don’t make any sense?
A mathematically illiterate one.
See, we live under a system of First Past the Post, otherwise known as Plurality.
It’s a system that forces a two party system. Not as a conscious choice, but as a consequence of the very system itself.
Here’s the kicker. Plurality voting actively punishes you for supporting a third party.
If you siphon votes away from the lesser of two evils, the greater evil wins.
It’s a pretty simple concept. And since we are just weeks away from the election, anyone who is actively pushing for third parties is automatically suspect.
Because the problems with Plurality are not some newly discovered quirk. They’ve been studied for centuries, but most extensively by Kenneth Arrow in the 70s.
What I’m saying is that most of the money given to support Third Parties, comes from people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum from those Third Parties.
Simply put, Trump and company throw money at the Greens and Socialists to siphon support away from the Dems, so that Trump and company can win with fewer votes.
So you, advocating for a third party, are mathematically indistinguishable from a Trump supporter.
Wow if third parties are so powerful then how come you’re not voting for one too?
It seems like a great way to force the major party of your choice to pay attention to your politics.
I’m not voting Third party because I’m not a Trump Supporter.
But you may be one. Mathematically speaking.
Ok I’ve heard all kinds of different reasons someone might be privileged, but doing work on the ground for years and laying the groundwork for real activism rather than whatever the hell you call this terminally online bullshit, is now what you people call privilege?
This shit is why Occupy died.
ground activism is great! but this person’s comment pretty much sums up to “whichever if the two candidates win in November, I won’t be effected enough to consider not tossing my vote into the trash to prove a point,” as do all 3rd party arguments. that’s privileged.
many many people quite literally have their lives on the line with this election, it’s extremely disrespectful to put them all in danger for some self centered, ill-thought out attempt at morality.
Yep, people here call me privileged too.
Um, I’m biracial, bisexual, and barely make above minimum wage. But because I disagree with some on here, I’m “privileged.” lmao
Friend, people say I’m privileged just because I’m shilling for Trump, er, I mean Stein, or Socialist stuff or something. Can you believe that shit?!
“Debt-free” “Woke-free” (Both according to your profile) You’re privileged as hell dude.
How does that make me “privileged”? I’m not white. I’m not straight. I grew up in poverty. I’m not rich. I don’t have a high-paying job. I don’t have college education (yet). So tell me, how am I privileged?!
Occupy died because of “terminally online bullshit”? I guess that terminally online bullshit is either more effective than what you’re suggesting or your analysis sucks.
One whole paragraph followed by a comment like that implies someone is usually talking about the whole episode going on and not just the keywords you singled out.
I still don’t get why you think occupy died, but regardless it wasn’t because of online shit or coopted lingo.
I’ve bumped into a bunch of you online socialists before and every one of you thinks your efforts made some profound difference when in reality socialism is still a nothing nowhere movement in the US and we get more fascist every election cycle.
Well, more and more people are pushing back against those thoughts. I’m see lots of people tired of waiting and going for third party this year. And it’s awesome to see!
Literally throwing away their vote, and helping Trump.
You cannot have a third party under First Past the Post. It it literally impossible and only aids Trump. So yeah. It’s not awesome to see. It’s aggravating. Because if you advocate for third parties, you’re a stealth Trump supporter pretending to actually care.
If the Democrats want my vote they are more than welcome to adopt a thing or two from the third parties that split their vote. How else would I communicate my size as a voter bloc and the specific policies we support, and how could I have any sway in any direction if my vote is to be taken for granted?
They seem to understand this when it comes to Republicans… I wonder why it never goes the other way. Seems that kind of strategy would be much more effective as a viable party in winning voters from a non-viable party, and much easier to triangulate, no?
You want your voice heard? Then actually speak up. Call your Representative. Their phone numbers are public. Write letters, send emails.
Be engaged.
Or throw your vote away. See, the two major parties don’t give a shit about what third party platforms are. Well, Republicans sure as hell don’t. And since the election is projected to be depressingly close, throwing your vote away on third parties will actively hurt you and your interests. And telling other people to abandon Harris for some rando third party who only runs a candidate once every 4 years, is equivalent to directly supporting Trump.
Because if you advocate for third parties, you’re a stealth Trump supporter pretending to actually care.
Nah. If I wanted to support Trump, I’d just vote for him. But I didn’t vote for him. I voted third party. Happily! Thank you!
Mathematically you are indeed a a Trump supporter.
Claiming that not voting for Harris means supporting Trump is flawed; using that logic, anyone who isn’t voting for Trump must be supporting Harris.
Voting for a third-party candidate is a choice to support what aligns with your values, not an automatic endorsement of the opposition.
Welcome to Plurality voting, advocating for third parties is mathematically indistinguishable from advocating for Trump.
Stop it unless you want Trump to win, in which case, fuck off.
I applaud you for voting, and for being willing to admit in the Politics Community that you voted third party. Unfortunately this place is so convinced that certain votes are owed to their party that they’ll actually downvote you for saying that you voted for the candidate that best represents your interests.
Thank you. We can’t let the bullies intimidate or pressure us into silence or from doing what we believe is right. Thank you, friend! :)
Why the fuck can’t we worshill for the Christ-Hating Christian Worker’s Party in peace? God-Satanic dammmiiit!
Yep! I voted for a different socialist candidate, but I really like de la Cruz. She’s awesome.
Perception operation, TikTok can be very effective in this regard.
So much energy from democrats that they should instead spend on pressuring their party leadership to change their evil policy of genocide support.
I don’t know, this might be a pretty effective strategy
It might.
Gen Z advocacy group
Is just code for “DC Consulting firm”. The energy is less popular appeals and more paid professional trolls.
I read “totally organic grassroots movement” and hear “PAC funded astroturf campaign”
Probably a fair assessment. Honestly, the energy I’m thinking of is all these Lemmy users.
I’m honestly wonder how many Lemmy nodes are out there vote-bombing topics like this. It would be the easiest thing in the world to do.
A lot of (and probably most of) the people supporting Stein currently are Muslims whose main interest in voting is regarding the genocide, and on social issues are generally more conservative (and may not agree with her on stuff like LGBTQ) and may not align with either major political party so likely wouldn’t be voting otherwise. I’ve seen a lot of Muslims support Stein on social media and the Stein rally I went to was almost entirely Muslims which is where I’m getting this impression. This is a case where the main parties need to earn their votes, and voting for Stein does not mean voting for Trump because they might not have voted blue either way.
(And regarding Lemmy drama most of the people here are voting PSL anyways so trying to convince people here not to vote for Stein is pointless because it’s the wrong audience.)
hmm PSL… Party for Socialism and Liberation? Claudia de la Cruz? I got no beef with them, how do you think that’s popular on Lemmy? Ohhh you’re on lemmy.ml
look Gaza and the wider Levant or whatever is not just potential real estate. But that is Trump’s milieu, is real estate scams, and he loves the idea of selling off Gaza to rich white folk. So vote for a third party at your peril.
How do you do fellow young adults.
Uncommited movement: “Guess I won’t vote”
I heard a piece on Here And Now today about a group of single issue voters in Dearborn that is actively working to disrupt and damage the Harris campaign. They are trying to get dems to vote for Stein.
“single issue voters” 🤣 🤣 🤣
“stop blowing up my family”
okay SiNgLe IsSuE vOtEr
Thing is, there is no “stop blowing up my family” vote in this election.
It’s “status quo, maybe some improvements but don’t hold your breath about anything major” vs “corruption, corruption, corruption, fuck everyone who isn’t a billionaire or has their lips firmly attached to billionaire assess, especially the entirety of Palestine” vs “I won’t vote for either of those options but will still need to live with the one everyone else votes for”.
It seems like they’re using multiple strategies in an effort to put pressure on the Dems. Some are saying that they are going to vote for Trump even though they are also anti-Trump. Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.
I doubt there is anything they can do to actually make Democrat politicians feel pressure, but I do agree with their sentiments. I’m not voting for some who is pro-genocide. Trump is both pro-genocide and fascist. I’m also not going to vote for a 3rd party candidate because most 3rd parties focus on the presidential race more than they focus on grassroots efforts.
Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.
This is literally the most braindead political take I’ve ever heard, and that’s saying a lot
It’s a classic “technically true, but not particularly useful” information tidbit. Harris is in office, Trump isn’t.
Of course, you could argue that Vance - as a powerful member of the US Senate - is participating in the genocide while Walz - a governor of a midwestern state with no meaningful role in foreign policy - isn’t. Equally true, but meaningless.
The problem Harris has isn’t that Trump gets innocence-by-default by being out of office for four years. Its that she’s doggedly clinging to the “both sides” framing of the Israeli genocide and scaring off Arab-American voters as a consequence. It doesn’t matter whether Harris is better or worse than Trump when the baseline of US policy is the mass slaughter of your friends and family.
It’s a classic “technically true, but not particularly useful” information tidbit. Harris is in office, Trump isn’t.
Harris is in an office that is entirely powerless (yes, she casts a vote in the event of a Senate tie, but no bill funding Israel has come down to that). She and Trump have nothing to do with the (current) Palestinian genocide.
Harris is in an office that is entirely powerless
Harris has enormous amounts of power by simply having access to the President’s phone 24/7. That’s before you get into how much authority she’s been delegated by a man whose brains are leaking out of his ears.
And you’ve confirmed that you don’t understand how the President works. He isn’t simply the King of America who can wave a magic wand and do what he wants.
you don’t understand how the President works
Tell it to Dick Cheney. He goes into this at great length in his autobiography
The problem that Harris has is the mountains of propaganda working against her.
Not saying she’s perfect, but in a practical sense the spin matters FAR more than the facts.
I agree that it’s a bad take. But at this point I think that they’re desperate, trying anything they can to get Kamala to change course. It’s an urgent issue that can be solved easily: just stop supplying weapons and aid to Israel. Four years from now, most Palestinians living in Palestine will already be dead.
That loses older uninformed democrat voters unfortunately
it’s not just uninformed voters, my grandfather is a retired history teacher and, he firmly believes that while Isreal is in the wrong, that it’s not in the US best interest to drop them. He’s worries that the destabalization of the area further will invite other foreign adversaries to invade it while also losing basically the only is friendly territory around. He’s worried it’ll be a repeat of the last time
I mean they’re naming an illegal settlement after trump and Netanyahu is explicitly advocating for trump. What’s crazy is polls show Kamala would get like a 6 point poll boost by breaking with biden on this and saying something a little more forceful about a peace deal, such as a deadline where arms deals are halted. It would almost singlehandedly secure michigan.
At this point, I wonder if opposition to Israel is dangerous for the lives of Western leaders.
I think its more that they’re afraid of being labeles antisemitic by the media and there’s pressure from the military to maintain status with Israel
Voting is a strategic choice, not an endorsement. You should vote for the candidate who you would rather have in office.
Their logic is that Kamala is actively contributing to a genocide, whereas Trump is not.
Even though he literally is, has put the Israeli Embassy in Jerusalem, and has advocated for the deployment of nukes in Gaza…
Shill who?
