Well, this is a fun discussion!
…Anyways, I like to think that the title implies you’re supposed to vote more than once lol
It also implies that not voting for Trump somehow counts more than voting for Trump does
The article is actually about how people that have voted more consistently will vote for Biden and people that vote more inconsistently will vote for Trump.
Very different from how I interpreted the headline.
Ok then! One vote for Trump is better than multiple not-votes for no one, so I’ll vote for Trump!
/s
In other words, more elections years you voted in since 2018 makes it more likely you voted for Biden.
This makes sense because Trump pushed turnout for the Dems with his deeply unpopular presidency. And this same dynamic can sink Biden in 2024 if he continues to be more unpopular than Trump.
This has been a recipe for a democratic win for a for decades. High turnouts favor democrats.
Yup, which is why the Republicans try to make it as difficult as possible to vote, especially for minorities. Don’t forget Trump said if minorities vote, Republicans will never win another election.
Also, why they focus on voter suppression and divisive propaganda every election to get the lefties all riled up about whatever makes them stay home. I wonder which issue it is right now!?
Israel. The tankies (some of whom are probably Russian trolls) are pushing the “Genocide Joe” narrative. They like to talk about principles but that means nothing when the brown shirts start throwing punches and are backed by the government.
I really wish Biden would take a harder line to get that under control. At the very least it’s aid that ought to be going to Ukraine which is instead being used for that disgusting mess.
The only justification I can think of is that it’s the only leverage we have over them and without it they would have no reason to be “restrained” at all. Even then I have my doubts.
The entire premise of the article is the exact opposite - that Trump did better when turnout was high.
A new poll suggests it’s Republicans who should be rooting for higher turnout.
You could literally put a half eaten turkey sandwich against Trump and I’d vote for the sandwich 100% of the time.
Meanwhile, there’s MILLIONS who are going to vote for him because everyone keeps telling them not too…I love how minorities are told that they’re “not good enough” to vote Republican.
If you wanna drink the right wing Kool-aid, that’s your own prerogative
…that’s your own stupid prerogative.
How I’d say that. ;)
I’m trying to be respectful, but yes. :p
As an outsider, though neighbor in Canada, I can’t truely comprehend why Trump has the support he does. I sort of get it when looking at specifics (some people enjoy racism, others think he’d stir things up and create change) but the Evangelical support alone is baffling. I’m not religious but went to schools with religion as a subject (didn’t always focus on Christianity in the Anglican one but other one did) and the idea that anyone remotely Christian, or anyone that thinks they have religious values could vote for him makes me want to do the exorcist head spin and spew green pea soup. I didn’t think of that idea in a religious way just an absurd reaction to the situation but it sort of fits.
I’d definitely vote for the inanimate carbon rod over Trump, but the sandwich has merit too.
I think a lot of Trump’s support is imaginary. We’ve had several elections, including the 2022 election, where the polls said we were going to get destroyed, but the Republicans way underperformed their polls. Perhaps it’s over-correction for 2016 when the polls overstated Democratic Party chances. Perhaps they’re over-sampling Republicans, not accounting for the fact that many older, more Republican-leaning people who distrusted the science behind COVID got themselves sick with COVID and then died from it. Or maybe they’re just making wild-ass guesses and don’t have a fucking clue because asking 1000 people what 220 million people are going to do six months away is always a tough thing to do.
That said, I’d still campaign like I was 5 points down in the polls if I was Biden, going 50 State Strategy to get ALL the votes he can, even the ones that ‘don’t count’, and if I was a voter that’s even REMOTELY aligned to the Left, I’d VOTE like he was down 1 point in the polls, and make damn sure I got my vote in for him. The alternative is just that much worse.
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Trump isn’t racist. That’s a narrative the Left has been throwing around for years. He’s won numerous black awards, has had numerous black support, and only when he ran against Democrats was he labeled by the left as a “racist.”
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Religious people will always vote conservative, no matter who the candidate is. My Mexican family are very religious Catholics, and even they vote for Trump because they always feel that a Republican better protects their religious rights.
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The Democrat party is doing everything and anything to stop him from running, and this only makes his case stronger.
Trump literally took out newspaper ads calling for the execution of a group of African-American teens falsely accused of a crime. He refuses to apologize
Hard to see that as anything other than racist.
Trump has been part of the African American community for most of his life…and now, he’s all of a sudden a racist…come on…
Trump isn’t racist.
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Historically, different Christian denominations used to rally behind the two political parties against each other, back when everyone was Christian. If I recall, if you had Catholics on one side, you’d usually find Protestants on the other. Of course this was also back when Republicans were the progressives, and Democrats were conservative.
Things are different now, but there is definitely still a more liberal contingent of Christians who are more in line with ‘separation of church and state’, and the more fundamentalist side whose schools have literally taught their children that it’s their Christian duty to vote for Trump.
Exactly… I think it’s horrific how politically behind we are here in America compared to most other industrialized nations.
I dont really understand the math behind it, can some one explain to me please ?
When you don’t vote you are voting for the guy who wins.
You hate trump but you hate the other guy too. You don’t vote. That’s one more vote not going against the guy who wins.
Say you have 100 people voting. 60 people decide not to vote. Out of the 40 people who vote 25 vote for guy A and 15 vote for guy B. Guy A wins majority even though only 25 people out of 100 voted for him. This means that guy A caters to the 25 people who voted for him and the 60 people who didn’t bother to vote get zero representation even though they’re the majority.
If the 60 people who didn’t vote decided “he’s not great but he’s better than guy A I will vote for guy B” guy B would win with 75 votes, an actual majority.
Sometimes it’s better to vote for the lesser of two evils and push the not great guy to do better than to just resign your fate to the worst guy and let the entire thing just burn.
I feel like if I pushed Biden on anything he’d fall over and break a hip.
Still voting for him tho
That may be true and all but I take it you didn’t read the article, because that not what it was about.
They polled people and those who are regularly vote in past elections tend to be pro Biden, those whom hadn’t voted in recent elections tended to be pro Trump.
Which is ironic because if everyone just got out and voted we might just have a send Trump presidency on our hands. I could be wrong, but I suspect that’s the opposite of what you are thinking would happen.
need I remind you that Trump lost the popular vote and won? With 100% (99.99%…) then it likely wouldn’t have been so close. Trump won because of voter apathy towards HRC.
Also your comment doesn’t take into account voter suppression, disenfranchisement and gerrymandering- all of which are self evidently powerful by token of how common they are.
President Joe Biden performed much better among frequent voters, while Trump had a large lead among people who haven’t voted recently.
Yes, it seems you are correct; according to this article if you want Biden to win you have to tell people NOT to vote. I imagine (I don’t have numbers) this is the opposite of what most of us expected.
He’s in office right now, the time to push was the last three and a half years and for the next 6 months.
I want to vote more, but when I try to vote more than once the poll workers get upset and tell me to leave.
you need to be a republican governor’s son. if you are, you can vote illegally as many times as you like and no one cares.
I’m voting as hard as I can
There’s just no privacy anywhere anymore.
You should try being a republican.
Alright. RFK Jr. it is then…
Bro is publicly selling out to the highest bidder while pedaling antisemitism, vaccine denial, and whatever other grift he can. At least choose the right high horse like Cornel West or something jfc
Ew.
You’re really gonna stick it to…whoever you wanna stick it to, I guess.
They’re going to stick it to themself.
So, you voted for Trump.
I was fucking lying, idiot.
I’ll vote for Vermin Supreme like always.
The only true candidate for president.
@yadownwithcpp think you used your wrong alt to stir shit up. Commie fucking scum. Stay in your troll farm.
easy
so does this include the US dissidents not allowed to vote legally?
fuck that
politicians like Biden crafted and wrote laws over the years that culminated in mine and others votes being taken away
not our fault people keep voting Demopublicans in
we need to get rid of both these corporate bought parties
[Citation Needed]
According to the article:
Source: NORC/University of Pennsylvania Department of Political Science
Does that say that Biden’s support is due to “US dissidents not allowed to vote legally”?
I’m sorry. I thought you were asking for the source of the headline claim. I believe the person you’re responding to was referring to the insurrectionists. Right-wing media tends to label them as dissidents, activists, demonstrators, etc. when they should be described as criminals.
Presuming you’re talking about disenfranchised citizens, that’s mostly felons. And IMO it is abhorrent to take away a citizen’s right to vote unless that citizen committed a specific type of crime against the government (being that it is the representative of the people), like sedition, treason, or insurrection. And even then, disenfranchisement should not be permanent.
But notably people are disenfranchised by their state and city jurisdictions. The federal government does not determine whether you can vote in any given election, just the rules that apply to all elections. If you want to blame a federal body, there’s plenty to go around - SCOTUS has upheld disenfranchisement as constitutional and Congress has not really passed meaningful laws defining and regulating the practice. But I can’t think of a law that Biden has been instrumental in that contributes here, other than, of course, his 1994 crime bill. That’s not a small deal but it is far more complicated than “Biden took away voter rights”
You’re not being oppressed. You post this every single time.
You lost your voting rights… how?
It’s like you’ve never picked up a US history book.
Back before women were allowed the vote, they would still go out and work for candidates.
dissidents not allowed to vote legally
Do you mean criminals?
The less you brain, the more you back Trump.
votes third party
That’s just voting for Trump with extra steps.
No it isn’t
I believe you if you’re logging in from the multiverse instance where West polls at over 40%, or the one where federal rank choice voting exists.
Do you want ranked choice voting?
I have it in my area for city / county seats. And I voted for it.
You specified federal. Thats available to vote for too you know
Yes. I like ranked choice, I have voted in favor of it in the past, and I would be in support of it for more elections. Including federal elections.
Don’t have to believe me, you already made yourself sound like an idiot with that claim, my vote is for the person I voted for, nobody else.
Nope. And either way these posts are really good at making protest voters
Nah, anyone who protest votes is doing it because they’re an immature asshole. We can convert some people on the fringe to sense but a lot of people can’t handle the fact that it’s imperative that they put their name next to the less bad of two people.
Just to remind you, Trump will institute a national abortion ban - voting for Biden will directly save hundreds of women’s lives… it’s the absolute easiest action to avert unnecessary deaths you’ll ever have in your lifetime.
If you can’t do this, you can’t do fucking anything.
All these posts blaming protest voters and those who don’t vote are all generated because of the bad numbers from the primaries right? And the over all loss in confidence in Biden due to his willful protection of isreal right?
Just got to remind people that they don’t really have a choice when the real voting happens. I think if you wanted to reach these voters these posts would be more detrimental then helpful.
What would help is if Biden stopped doing the hated things.
Or is this just a circle jerk reddit thing?
I think I was pretty fucking clear. I’m posting because it will save lives. Imagine how difficult it is to pull someone from a burning car, now imagine how difficult it would be to fill in the bubble next to Biden on a ballot - both actions will save lives.
So why is it so fucking difficult to fill in that bubble?
No you are not. This isn’t some revelation. That people just didn’t know that fracturing the Democratic parties vote hurts their chances against the republicans. You are making this post for selfish reasons.
Like i said, demonizing people who find it hard to vote for someone protecting a genocide is for your own self gratification. Its not to change minds, its not to help Biden beat trump. Its solely to start a circle jerk to validate your decision to vote blue no matter who, and to quiet that little voice about how bad of a candidate he is
You are doing no one any favors
The idea isn’t to convert you. The idea is to help others see your arguments for what they are and not fall down the same nihilistic trap.
I love how all these people who are suddenly vocal about the terrible situation in Gaza fall short of realizing that getting Trump in office would be catastrophically worse. With that logic, the only practical option is to vote for Biden in the general. A 3rd party vote is just throwing your vote away.
The only conclusion I see here is these people are either disinformation agents, naive fools, or both.
I don’t know the inverse to that is also true. Joe Biden could throw progressive some more bones if it meant saving women’s lives.
It’s bizarre to me that the onus is on us and not the candidate running for office to convince us.
All those lives in Gaza saved.
It fucking sucks and I strongly support the uncommitted movement and putting all the pressure we can on him about Gaza (see my post history if you want). Trump is going to be as bad or worse on Gaza, it fucking sucks but there isn’t a way you can vote to fix Gaza.
And you somehow think voting for Trump, or giving him an advantage, will help in Gaza?
He will put zero pressure on Netanyahu. He’ll likely openly support the effort and say something like “the Palestinians are just like the illegals crossing our border.”
Voting isn’t picking someone you like, voting is choosing the person with the best chance of winning and creating policies aligned with your values and ideals. If you vote for somebody with zero chance of winning, you’re giving an advantage to the candidate who undermines your values being implemented in the long term.
If we had ranked choice voting, or if the alternative candidate wasn’t openly threatening democracy, the rationale would be very different.
The smart people tried to explain to the voters that Brexit would be an enormous failure, but the voters let their emotions get in the way of being rational, and now they’re suffering and wished they had voted differently.
We have the potential for something much worse with Trump. Much worse. If you can’t see through your emotions to understand that if Trump is elected your vote may never matter again, I’m not sure you have the rationale capacity to be worth the time I spent typing this response.
Donald said “Israel should finish the job.” IDK how much more directly one can reference “Final Solution.” Sure, he will save the Palestinians.
That’s what they said the last election and voter turnout was nuts.
The blaming of the protest voters shamed them into voting for Biden? Yea i doubt that.
Though right now the situation is different. Biden has done some things that make voters balk. Maybe he should stop doing that. It might help more then making circle jerk posts on Lemmy
This has nothing to do with blame. It’s mathematics. You can either add to the resistance against Trump or not.
You say that like this math factors into any part of why people are protest voting. They know this already and this gives nothing to the conversation. Instead, your best bet is to find out what they want and maybe go over a plan that gets them what they need. Sure as shit attempting to shame people with your basic math will only accomplish in widening the divide and pushing contrariness.
Ironically, in that episode, voting third party was best because both candidates were monsters.
Today one is a monster and the other is the not a monster but still mostly represents monsters, but some people too.
I took some time to look at who the 2020 Biden voter are who are considering not voting for him.
While there are a growing number of such groups, one of the biggest is Muslims. They get that Trump is a racist and hates Muslims. They’re also currently watching Biden going out of his way to support Israel in their genocide. To them, Biden doesn’t just represent monsters, he is a monster. They’re logic is essentially, “We’re fucked either way. Let’s get rid of the monster in front of us and then we’ll worry about the next monster.”
It doesn’t matter if you or I agree with that. They’re not asking for permission to feel that way. If the Democratic leadership doesn’t address those concerns with significantly more empathy than, “don’t be stupid”, the likely outcome is that Biden will miss out on many of those votes.
Unfortunately Biden has been racking up voter groups that feel betrayed by him. My preference would have been for Biden to find some other Democratic candidate, retire gracefully and strongly back the new candidate.
He even said during 2020 that he wanted to be a one term president, that he was only there to beat trump.
I guess you can argue he still needs to beat trump.
From what i recall, he was undecided. The media and others were projecting and suggesting that he should be a 1-term president. —Honestly, his vagueness about policy and his advocacy for nothing but the status-quo are primarily what led me to vote Green for the last presidential election.
I’m all for someone trying to beat Trump.
It’s looking less and less like Biden will be able to pull that off.
He even said during 2020 that he wanted to be a one term president
He literally never said that. This is pure propaganda.
“If Biden is elected, he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection,” a prominent adviser to the campaign told Politico.
I guess the words didn’t come from his mouth in particular but when your a politician, your staff are your representatives, and his said it.
Can’t believe people would call our verifiable facts as propaganda so confidently with nothing to back it up…
Like I said,
He literally never said that
One fucking advisor to the campaign said it. Not even his official staff. An advisor.
“Verifiable facts”, my ass. It’s propaganda and you just repeated it without ever looking into it.
It doesn’t matter if you or I agree with that.
I’d argue it matters a lot.
What’s the argument that it does?
Do you think that this disagreement is likely to change anyone’s mind?
Take a fairly famous example. Bassem Youssef has very publicly embraced the sentiment I’m describing. How does your agreement or disagreement have any impact at all?
I’d argue that it will only have an impact if you choose an action that’s likely to induce change. He very clearly says that he considers the threats that “If you don’t vote for Biden you’re voting for Trump,” messages to be a form of blackmail.
He finds it unconvincing so it fails to work on him. As near as I can tell, his attitude is fairly representative of a significant number of voters.
How does your agreement or disagreement have any impact at all?
This is a democracy. Potential voters are being influenced right now by the discussions we’re having.
I should clarify then.
There is currently some percentage of people who plan to vote for Biden, some that plan to vote for Trump and some who are undecided.
Most polling shows that, if there was an election today, Biden would lose pretty badly.
If you simply agree or disagree, is that likely to change anyone’s planned voting behavior? If you continue to insult the people who do not currently plan to vote for Biden, do you think that will change their minds?
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!
How does this make any sense in the context of the article?
It doesn’t. They didn’t read it.
I tried to vote, but the DNC cancelled the Democratic primary in my state.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. This is accurate. They did not once your vote.
I’m getting downvoted because it’s accurate.
I actually agree with OP that everyone should be voting Biden in the general, but this constant messaging is tone-deaf as Hillary Clinton and is going to be self defeating.
You have another vote coming up.
In any case, no they didn’t. The Democratic National Convention didn’t cancel any state primaries. Your state party did. Your local Democrats decided to not have a primary.
That’s not how it happened. Yeah, sure, it’s technically up to the state party, but it was at the request of the DNC. There is authority, and then there is soft power.
Getting to pick between two candidates chosen for me by oligarchs doesn’t seem like Democracy to me.
And now we’re into conspiracy theory territory.
That’s usually a clue that you’re wrong about something.
Public information bro. Conspiracies actually do happen BTW. We have a former president being charged with involvement in several of you haven’t been keeping up with the news
They do happen but they’re rare. That’s why they’re in the news.
Generally speaking, you should think “maybe I’m wrong” before you think “there’s a conspiracy”.
“National party exerts pressure on state party” is hardly a great plot for an X-files episode. And that’s assuming it took more than a polite phone call
It would honestly be harder to believe that a state party would exclude someone from the ballot without at least discussing it with the national party.
Still their decision. And the reasoning for their decision was not arbitrary. Some no-name candidate didn’t qualify in time. That’s not a conspiracy.
Wow, this article sure did get the bot trash buzzing lol.
This ain’t no big revelation to anyone. Since the 1960’s Republicans have relied on liberal voter’s apathy to win seats in government. It’s liberalism’s greatest weakness and failure - the belief that someone else should be responsible because they can’t be bothered.
Since the 1960’s Republicans have relied on liberal voter’s apathy to win seats
Makes you wonder why Democrats continue to foster that apathy.
A controlled opposition
how?
For example when Obama had the power to codify Roe v. Wade he didn’t.
How to piss off everyone at LW, watch:
I am voting for neither. I’m going to match what I care about with a specific candidate, because I don’t like Trump or Biden. [/opinion]
Now I’ll just sit and wait for the “you idiot” comments and the vitriol geyser to blow. This should be entertaining to watch people think my vote’s going to make a difference in the electoral college.
Thanks for surrendering what little choice you have to me.
Cool, have fun picking between fascism and genocide.
*fascism+genocide and genocide.
Sure thing! Thanks again!
To be clear, I’ve surrendered nothing to you whatsoever. My vote will be counted toward another candidate available to me on the ticket, just neither Trump nor Biden. That you intend to vote for genocide or fascism is something you are so gleeful to do. Enjoy.
To be clear, thanks again for surrendering your choice to me.
Honestly it’s kinda weird that you prefer genocide and fascism to genocide or fascism, so it really is best you let more rational people decide for you.
I’m sure the history books will remember your rational perspective.
You’re all idiots.
To be clear, I’m voting productively instead of as a sheep. It’s not surrendering anything to you. If you are beholden to the two party system and fall into the trap of “keep the other guy out” instead of voting for someone in good conscience, that’s you being part of the problem.
That’s called surrendering.
No, it’s called a society of sheep who don’t want to change from the two party system.
WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!
So there’s this cool thing with math where you can factor out common values.
So if we have fascism+genocide vs notfascism+genocide, and we factor out the support for Israel, we get fascism vs nonfascism.
That’s still an important election, regardless of whether both sides support Israel.
That’s still an important election, regardless of whether both sides support Israel.
Sure, but consider what you’re saying here, if we cannot use our votes to effect change then what are you proposing people do?
Well, for one, vote for the only major party that MIGHT give a shit about Gaza or may be less gung-ho about supporting Israel, and for two, advocate in other ways. Organize protests, make calls to your representatives and senators, donate to charities that will assist the people of Gaza, etc.
Keep in mind, Donald Trump moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and doesn’t give a flying fuck about Gaza. He’s worse for Gaza than “Genocide Joe” is.
Organize protests
There have been protests about Biden sending arms to Israel. He continues to send arms to Israel. Politicians ignore protests.
make calls to your representatives and senators
People have called their representatives and senators objecting to sending arms to Israel. Arms continue to be sent to Israel.
Clearly neither of these have worked. What else have you got?
It’s like you’re expecting national policy to turn instantly based on protests. That’s now how the world works, unfortunately. Things take time.
It’s terrible, I’m not in any way trying to downplay the genocide that is happening. But Israel and the US have been firm allies for a long time. Change won’t come quickly. And it won’t come at all if Trump is elected.
Isn’t genocide the reason we don’t like fascism?
Fascism is the reason we don’t like fascism.
Here’s that guy that was foretold by the prophecy. The one who doesn’t understand the electoral college. Lmao
Very appropriate username.
Thanks 👈😎
You’re welcome!
I hope one day you know as much about us politics as you think you do now ☺️
Teach me!
It’s important to recognize that our country has a major built in conservative bias. The electoral college and Republican gerrymandering gives Republicans a major advantage.
So if liberals are unhappy with how much the Democratic Party has shifted to the right, protest voting will only force the DNC further to the right.
Instead, liberals need SHOW UP. Let the DNC know that liberals can get a candidate elected. Then in 2028, we need to make sure the candidate that gets chosen is the one that is right for liberals.
I’m not sure why you think liberals are the solution. They’re just as much a part of the problem and not in a “liberals have slowly shifted to the right” way.
Keep in mind, Eugenics received pretty heavy support from liberals. Liberals are just as responsible for the corporate hellscape we’re currently entering, they’re just the parent in the abusive household that comes in and makes sure you don’t make problems for the other one that just got done beating you.
Idk what the solution is, but something makes me doubt it’s liberals teaming up.
What’s your strategy?
I’m not saying you’re wrong on some points, but tell me how you’re going to fix the “corporate hellscape.”
And not a simple, “vote for a 3rd party” response. Provide a viable, long-term strategy for getting out of this mess.
Then tell me which candidate gives you the highest likelihood of executing your strategy.
Biden.
I’m voting Biden because Trump is demonstrably worse.
That being said, if you think that Biden is going to prevent the next conservative candidate from gaining steam: you are simply fucking dumb. If you think that the libs are going to prevent the next conservative candidate from gaining steam: you are simply fucking dumb. You stifling any conversation because you don’t like the context matter and are predispositioned to assume you’re unable to reach any consensus with the person on the other side is, guess what? BAD.
tell me how you’re going to fix the “corporate hellscape”.
I can’t. I would need the help of the people that are around me, the people that I can communicate to with words.
Let’s see, half of the country is religious. So that’s obviously an uphill battle, the other half… oh that would probably be the side that has people like you and the other people downvoting me.
Gonna go ahead and say it’s an uphill battle on both sides. Imagine actually demanding an entire plan that requires both uniting the country, which includes eradicating white supremacy and the various inequalities in the U.S., and then solving climate change.
God it’s like half the people here are children.
My long term solution would be uniting the under 50 vote to add the 28th amendment.
The 28th amendment needs to eliminate money/donations/bribes/grifts from the election process. It also needs to eliminate any form of augmented monetary enrichment for elected officials.
Until corruption via monetary gain can be somewhat controlled, we can never achieve a legitimate democracy.
How many Democrat senators would you say we’d need for that? 50? 60? 70? 80?
Sure, absolutely.
How much time is your plan going to take? Because we’re on a clock.
There are plenty of conservatives in the under 50 bracket, obviously that will change as more babies are born; but how is your plan going to play out with population replacement rates falling globally?
I’m not intentionally poking holes, your suggestion is great and it is absolutely a step that needs to be taken. I just think that we’ve entered unfamiliar territory and I fear that old strategies may not be applicable. The conservatives have basically been waging a whisper campaign on the people of the U.S. and we’re seeing the effects of that coming to a head. We will not simply “unite the people under 50”.
Clearly we’re not talking about the same “liberals” if you think the liberals I’m referring to would support Eugenics.
I deleted my post btw since I read the article and realized my comment had nothing to do when it.
The various trolls infesting lemmy love to play on the nearly opposite meaning of “liberal” in the global political sense vs the US political sense.
In other countries, they use “liberal” or “liberalism” to refer to a right wing ideology. In the US, “liberal” means a left wing ideology, like social democracy.
I’m not a troll. Liberals haven’t saved us, I’m not sure why you would think a Liberal is going to. I’m voting Biden because a U.S. under Trump is worse, but if you think stifling any conversation about what happens next with “the libs will save us” is contributing anything then you’re just as fucking dumb as the pugs that frequent hexbear.
The libs could save us, if we could ever get enough in power.
Of course the libs haven’t saved us, they haven’t had the numbers. It’s been neck and neck with the fascists for 20 years.
Imagine what we could do if the Dems had a 20 year supermajority. Universal healthcare, UBI, free college, wealth tax, these are all things that standard-issue Dems would love to do if it were feasible. The reason centrist Dems take baby steps isn’t because that’s all they want, it’s because that’s all they can do. Give em the power and they’ll do more.
As I’ve said, I will be voting Biden. I’m inclined to believe things will not change.
Give Dems the power, and we’ll prove you wrong. You’ll love it.
Don’t forget to vote downballot! And in non Presidential elections!
The libs could save us, if we could ever get enough in power.
We were.
For a few months, and in that time they passed legislation that saved thousands of lives and brought us closer to universal health care.
Do you consider Biden to be a liberal?
Yes.
I think the misalignment in meaning actually has more to do with the 1-dimensional binary you just pointed to than to a reversal of meanings.
Liberalism is an ideology of individualism, which has some overlap with both left and right US political categories, but is certainly not “left” in the poly-sci sense of the word.
You’re still talking about European liberalism. Liberalism in the United States is more collectivist. Liberals in the US believe that improving the common good makes all our lives better, and believe that those more fortunate should be made to help those less fortunate.
I understand the US political category and the normalized usage of it, but liberalism has a very distinct meaning in polysci. There are aspects of liberalism (in the classical use of the word) within the US political category ‘liberal’, especially when it comes to fiscal policy. People who castigate liberals from the left are those who primarily take issue with that particular quality of US Democratic policy, not the qualities you’re speaking fondly of here.
Edit: I should say - it is still just a term that describes a particular thing, so if that term isn’t adequately describing what you’re talking about, then maybe a different word should be used
in polysci
…which doesn’t matter outside of academic discussions.
There are aspects of liberalism (in the classical use of the word) within the US political category ‘liberal’,
Sure, but they still generally mean opposite things. And trolls are still exploiting that.
