I don’t know what was wrong with Joe Biden. It’s hard to imagine that they ever would have asked for a debate if this was the way he is normally. We’ve seen him recently holding press conferences and giving speeches and he seemed to be fine. They said he had a cold so maybe he really was on drugs — Nyquil or Mucinex or something that made him seem so shaky and frail. Whatever it was, it was a terrible debate for him and if he does stay in the race (which is almost certain in my opinion) the campaign is going to have a lot of work to do to dig out of the hole that was dug last night. The media smells blood and they are circling like a bunch of starved piranhas.
. . . For some odd reason, moderator Jake Tapper told Trump in the beginning that he didn’t need to answer the questions and that he could use the time however he wanted. Trump ran with that, essentially giving a rally speech whenever he had the floor and was unresponsive to the vast majority of the questions. He made faces and insulted Biden to his face, at one point calling him a criminal and a Manchurian candidate. If anyone had said 10 years ago that this would happen at a presidential debate they would have been laughed out of the room.
After the debate when most of the country had turned off cable news or gone to bed, CNN aired its fact check. And it’s a doozy:
It sure would have been good if even some of that epic litany of lies could have been checked while people were still watching. The decision to have the moderators sit like a couple of potted plants woodenly asking questions about child care while Trump responded with irrelevant lies was inexplicable. Why did they even bother to ask questions at all? They could have just run the timer and let the candidates talk for two minutes each about anything they wanted. It probably would have been more enlightening.
TLDR:
All that’s missing is a swastika
On Biden because he’s enabling the genocide in Gaza?
Trump would show how genocide is done
I’m voting for Biden so don’t give me shit about being a Leftist helping Trump win. But if he does win, remember that Dems had a million chances to run someone better and this is what they let happen. It’ll be their fault if we get more of the bad man.
THANK YOU!!! MORE TRUMP WILL BE THE DIRECT RESULT OF DOGSHIT LEADERSHIP IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!
Are you a leftist that denies that there is a genocide going on in Gaza?
No. I’m a Leftist who’s outraged that my government is funding said genocide while actively denying it’s happening.
Then how could you possibly vote for Biden? He only once held up funding, for like two days, before the heat got too high for him and he relented. He’s marginally than Trump better but voting for him is still supporting genocide.
The dems suspended the primaries in a number of states and more or less coronated Biden.
The Dems believe in democracy only when against the GOP but do not believe in democracy when deciding matters inside their party.
The “Democratic” Party my ass cheeks. Clowns and hypocrites.
Agreed. The coordinated pullout to sabotage Bernie in 2020 was shameful. “Vote for us or you’ll be sorry when the GOP takes over” is all they offer.
They sabatoged him in 2016, too… 2020 they had learned how to just do it better.
Right before Super Tuesday they got scared the DNC types made calls and then it was over.
The neo-liberals who took over the party completely after Reagan would rather lose to Trump than let Sanders, or Warren, or AOC, or anyone else who’d actually even slightly joke at the possibility of forcing the billionaire class to finally start contributing instead of leeching.
I will vote for Biden, just like I did in 2020, and Hillary in 2016… but they won’t change and if they lose they just blame the left anyway.
If they won’t change and they’ll just blame you when they loose why are you voting for them?
Because they aren’t the only ones, because Trump and any R is worse.
The Ds may cut off a finger, but the Rs will eat your whole goddamn family and make you watch.
Both suck… but sitting out or voting for anyone who has no chance is inviting them to feast.
Do you think it’s worth it to help the democrats win rather than build an alternative and show them where to shift their platform towards?
That’s not feasible in a FPTP system. Best you can do is keep voting for the least bad between the two “real” candidates and shift the Overton window overtime.
Or have a violent revolution, but that’s a bit more difficult to coordinate.
As long as the US has a two-party system where the third-party mechanically ONLY acts as a spoiler candidate - see Ross Perot for Bush in 92, Nader, Stein, whoever you want to fucking name… whichever THAT 3rd party candidate is most closely aligned with are the ones that get screwed the most.
Voting third-party is about as stupid a fucking thing you can do outside of not voting at all.
Voting third-party is the worst kind of dipshit gesture - like raising your middle finger to flip someone off while a helicopter blade is spinning inches above you. Voting 3rd party means you effectively give another vote to the candidate you want the least.
If the US had ranked-choice voting, then voting for a 3rd party would make sense, but both parties know that this helps them stay in power and so as long as they keep it the way it is, our ONLY choice with a demonstrably positive outcome of any kind is to try and fight super fucking hard in the primaries and hope to God that we can squeeze someone through before dark corporate PAC money missiles or the ring-leaders in the DNC recognize what they are before being able to stop them.
It’s how we got AOC, and a few others from the squad… and it’s how we were even able to see Bernie get to push Biden just a TINY bit more left than Biden would have been otherwise.
If you want to tell them to fuck off… then show up and volunteer and phone bank and knock on doors for the best candidates you can find DURING THE PRIMARIES.
If someone really awesome makes it through to the general… then great!
But if they don’t, hopefully they were strong enough presence (thanks to brave volunteer supporters who wanted to say “fuck you” to the shitty party leaders) to force the right-leaning Democratic members to lean a little bit more leftward than they otherwise would have been (like Bernie helped make Biden do… as much as he could).
Build an alternative in… checks calendar, 4 months that can gain more votes than the active democratic nominee and beat the stir mad republican candidate whose supporters are voting for out of pure spite. This comment is either in bad faith or you literally have no idea how the election works. Best case here isn’t even winning, it’s taking as few votes from the sane candidates as possible because all this’ll do is split the democrat voting block.
History, procedure, common sense, and logic all said that was what was going to happen. They didn’t cancel the primaries. They never started the primaries. A lot of states started holding primaries assuming the incumbent wasn’t running again. But that was never the case. Biden never said that he was only going to run the one time and not again. People in his orbit discussed that he might do that. But that was nothing that he said or that they ever committed to.
You and I are welcome to believe this what he should have done. But historically if an incumbent decides to run for another Term. No party ever Has primaried them. We can criticize Biden on not telegraphing that well enough. That’s fair. We can absolutely criticized Biden on things like that. But policy-wise and as far as his administration goes. He’s been fairly popular and consequential. Despite the one really big issue which seems to be all people want to talk about ignoring the fascist in the room.
But historically if an incumbent decides to run for another Term. No party ever Has primaried them.
And this lack of pragmatism and adherence to “tradition” when the republicans openly don’t stick by those rules will cause the Dems to contribute to the coming of fascist amerika
Fascists support genocide so you must be taking about supporting Biden?
Another case of the lesser of two evils. I’m not necessarily hyped on Biden but holy shit he has never looked/sounded this old and feeble
He was massively over coached.
The very first thing he needed to say was:
“This man is going to lie to you. He’s going to lie the entire time, and probably the only thing he will say true is his name.”
Agreed.
Biden could have started saying, “you know, I’ve never been a good debater – especially with a bit of a campaign cold – but what I have been good at is running this country. I’ve clearly been around for a while and, since I’ve dedicated my career and life to being a servant to this great country, I’ve never been more optimistic about America’s economy. Yes, we’ve taken a few punches recovering from the pandemic, but compared to our international neighbors we are doing ok. Not great, but not bad. There is still a lot of work left to do cleaning up from the mistakes of my predecesor, but we are making good progress and will continue to do so. <insert list of capping medication prescription costs, FED interest rates have stopped and not rising, historically low unemployment with 11 million new jobs, taxes on corporations>”
The second you say not great, but not bad, it’s over.
The threshold is wanting great, so much the maga asshole made it his slogan. Nobody (collectively) wants “okay”
I want okay. I want a country that doesn’t backslide into fascism. I would be overjoyed by okay.
You are not the vast majority of people. People want killer economy, no unemployment, no inflation (I know these are all incompatible). They don’t want meh.
‘you have the morals of an alley cat’
Brandon fucked up. Bad. He played into all that bullshit the traitors have been planning. It was truly disheartening.
Look, I’m voting for him. I’ll vote for any D in hopes of stopping the republican traitor filth. But Brandon needs to fuck off. Someone needs to talk sense to him and have him recognize what is right and necessary for the country.
I guarantee you the subset of DNC operatives invested in keeping Biden is vastly larger than any advocating for someone else.
This is all media turd circus because we were stupid enough to stand in the same room with a demented orange rapist in order to, uh, “reach undecideds”.
Welp. We reached ‘em. Good job DNC. As per.
If they stand by him while the media eviscerates him then Trump wins, full stop.
If they want to fight this off he needs to be on national TV as often as possible over the next couple weeks answering questions without scripts or prompters. It’s the only way out of this hole.
If he will not or can not do that, he must step aside.
I dunno about that, but however we defeat trump let’s keep it in full focus because the roller coaster has begun its ascent in earnest.
Don’t let the optimism here fool you. Biden needs to bring on board undecided voters. And they aren’t impressed.
Honestly I think anyone who is old enough to vote and saw the unholy shitshow that was 2017-2021 is literally incapable of being undecided.
If that is even possible somehow, I’m sure there’s nothing Biden can do that will specifically change that.
Polls show there’s still undecided people. For example in Pennsylvania there’s 6 points unaccounted for in polling. And Biden really needs to pick up those points.
Polls show a lot of things. They are very often critically flawed.
Or maybe we shouldn’t have anyone debating a Facist anti-intellectual. Because you can’t.
It’s like arguing with a toddler. You can’t, because even when you are right you are wrong
Skill issue.
Of course the opponent is always going to claim you’re wrong, that doesn’t mean you can’t mount a competent response. If their tactics are so incredibly effective that there’s no way to counter them, then steal those tactics and throw them right back at their face. Trump isn’t even an unknown quantity, they’ve got teams of people working for 8 years to come up with an answer to his approach, if Biden still isn’t up to the task then he needs to step aside and let someone else handle it.
HIS CONTROLLER WAS DISCONNECTED
having no crowd was so fucking stupid, such a dry dry awful environment. the guys need to be able to feed off the energy and rattle off a few applause lines, not just speak to the camera. such a dumb unforced error
I don’t see how a crowd would have helped Biden. In fact the Dems requested this since they felt Trump feeds off of crowds.
It’s almost like it was a debate, and not a clown show
But it was a clown show though
Someone pointed out, the debate was scheduled for 9pm, with two men over 70. I’m in my 50’s, and I’m no good after 8pm. This should have been held in the morning.
The debate was poorly arranged, and once again Biden’s incompetent staff contributed by letting it happen.
Fair enough, but isn’t it reasonable to want the president of the United States to be someone who doesn’t fall apart after 9pm?
I remember Clinton’s “3am phone call” ad that she used against Obama. Now centrists are fine with “not after Wheel of Fortune.”
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. But I also want a president who’s not just going to take amphetamines so he can perform well past his bed time.
I’m not saying either of these guys is my first choice. I’m just saying that it was late, Biden had a cold, and he was probably taking Nyquil or something - he would want to be up there sneezing and blowing his nose. If you compare his performance in the debate to his speech in N Carolina, he certainly wasn’t at his peak. Good knows how much cocaine Trump had snorted before the debate.
He did horribly and you make excuses for him. He needs to retire.
It’s too late to ask for that now. You gotta say that at the primaries.
I tried, the establishment muscled out any real contenders.
Yeah, it’s a shame.
When have any of these debates in the past twenty years been “fair”? The democrats knew what they were getting into.
CNN is essentially owned by John Malone now. It’s just Fox News lite.
Holy cope.
People here actually deluding themselves into Biden falling for Debate tricks instead of saying he “beat Medicare” and “we need Abortion because foreigners are raping women”.
BIDEN: Fentanyl and the byproducts of fentanyl went down for a while. And I wanted to make sure we use the machinery that can detect fentanyl, these big machines that roll over everything that comes across the border, and it costs a lot of money. That was part of this deal we put together, this bipartisan deal.
More fentanyl machines, were able to detect drugs, more numbers of agents, more numbers of all the people at the border. And when we had that deal done, he went – he called his Republican colleagues said don’t do it. It’s going to hurt me politically.
He never argued it’s not a good bill. It’s a really good bill. We need those machines. We need those machines. And we’re coming down very hard in every country in Asia in terms of precursors for fentanyl. And Mexico is working with us to make sure they don’t have the technology to be able to put it together. That’s what we have to do. We need those machines.
If Biden was dead I’d still vote for him over trump.
Yeah but people are correct when they ask if that’s really the standard you should be aiming for. If democrats want to beat trump as much as they say - perhaps to stop shooting themselves in the foot, picking incrementalist candidates who forget where they are, and trying to re-engage people that (correctly) feel completely unrepresented by offering up these ancient clowns would be a good start.
Blind allegiance to the most uninspiring dem runner in history, and his campaign being more about who he isn’t…it’s just the emperor’s new clothes but as an extremely consequential election.
If democrats lose again, it’s time for some serious self reflection - as bad as trump is, and as insane and dangerous some of his supporters are - that’s not an acceptable excuse for losing an election - if anything, it makes it more embarrassing that there’s anything resembling an actual contest.
I wouldn’t equate voting for the lesser of two evils with “blind allegiance”.
For all of Biden’s faults (of which there are many) he’s still the better candidate on offer.
All the issues you bring up are valid, of course, but unfortunately there’s a lot at risk should Trump win. And voting for a senile old man is still preferable to voting for a fascist who is primarily running as a way to stay out of prison.
I’m not sure how we can hijack the DNC primaries to get a real quality candidate, but as far as improving our elections overall, that’s where I’d like to see some progress.
Totally, the problem is he should be in a home, and a fresh strapping young lad/lass under the age of 70 (lmao) should be doing these debates instead.
Trump needs to be defeated at all costs, I’m just massively disappointed that this is the guy the democrats chose
It’s bad here, but it’s actually a mental institution on reddit.
I am losing my mind over what I see on Reddit right now. They are arguing that Trump should quit running for president if he wants to serve his country.
Biden is senile! Trump is a POS, he has always been a POS. This no news to anyone. But, the biggest thing the debate revealed is that Biden is senile. He lost A LOT of votes during the debate. Trump did not lose any votes. Everyone knew Trump was a POS before the debate.
We all know Trump doesn’t actually want to serve his country. During a Hannity interview Trump couldn’t name a single thing he wanted to enact in his second term. It’s all about keeping himself out of prison and helping heal his wounded ego for losing in 2020.
Reddit is heavily astroturfed by Democratic Party staff and affiliates, along with a host of other organizations and literal nation state actors. If you can’t see the agendas being pushed there, you might need a new pair of glasses. I got mine from my friend John Nada.
It’s more like Reddit is a bunch of edgy teenagers who already skew in favor of liberal ideas far beyond that of the regular voting public. It’s why atheism is wildly popular on Reddit as well as issues like abortion or trans rights, when the American public is far more evenly split.
Yes there’s some campaigning going on on Reddit as well but it’s dwarfed by the left wing base already on the site. The swell in anti-Biden posts make this split all the more obvious.
That as well, but make no mistake - there is a ton of astroturf laid down on that site daily.
You just made facts up. “He lost votes during the debate” is not measurable in any meaningful way. It’s still 5 months from now. There are other debates to come.
They need to defend their talking points:
- Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the US (I think GWB was worse- Global War on Terrorism us $8 trillion IIRC, est. 1 million excess deaths in Iraq, est. 360’000 excess deaths in Afghanistan, and both countries ravaged economically and socially).
- Biden is the only one that can save us from Trump and the Republicans and Project 2025.
- A vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. When I go to vote for Jill Stein I’m literally, according to them, voting for Trump. I don’t know how their stupid minds figured this one out. Must be some Terrence Howard math they are doing (one multiplied by one equals two- look it up).
- This is the most important election evar!! Every election seems to be the most important: The world is going to end if my guy/gal doesn’t get in! Chicken Little, the sky has been falling for so long, or more accurately, you’ve been yelling about it for so long that I’ve come to believe that it’s all lies and not truth.
The part about voting is pretty simple logic.
In a voting system where the one who gets majority of the votes wins, the other votes don’t really have an impact. Of course they are part of the race to win, but outside of that, what do the other votes do? Nothing. In other systems those votes would cause a second round to happen, but in the US system they don’t. Those votes are just… gone.
Sure, you could argue that it’s about “sending a message”, but… why? Why do this now while the Project 2025 looms over the US if the Republicans win? The Democratic Party won’t change before the elections and no amount of threatening to vote for 3rd party will change that.
The part about “if you don’t vote for Biden, you vote for Trump” is not literal. It’s more… abstract if that makes sense. Since if you vote for parties that have no realistic chance of winning, it means that a party that has a chance of winning doesn’t get that vote and the party you least want in power is one vote closer to win the election. This logic goes for both Democrats and Republicans. If a Republican votes for third party that has no chance of winning, their vote metaphorically goes to the Democratic party, since the Republican party will be one vote further away from the Democratic party. Hell, this same logic, to some extent, also applies to other systems, but not as much as the US system.
So unless you are predicting Jill Stein to be making history and winning as a third party, a thing that hasn’t happened, that vote won’t affect the elections and the party you least want in power is just one vote closer to be winning.
In a two round system, your vote would matter more, since your vote would be affecting everyone’s chance of getting an absolute majority of 50% all votes. And since everyone, but your chosen party, is one vote further from the 50% mark, a second round has a higher chance of happening.
These people are so stupid they’re falling for the exact same stuff we heard in 2016.
Trmp was a racist and said stupid stuff. But he didn’t start any wars. Trump was far from the world ending. Then again, Biden was being insanely racist this debate too. Blaming the need for abortion on foreign immigrants raping women.
Deluded Democrats have no idea what an actual militarist Fascist looks like. This cycle of sliding right will only be broken by a third party.
Lol @ mr “Gaza is the worstest genocide 4evah” going “at least donnie doesn’t start no wars”
Lol @ people pretending to care about Genocide and simping for Genocide Joe committing Genocide.
Factually my statement was correct. You might not like it because your reality gets shattered that Trump is a far cry from being the worst Republican ever.
Why would you choose to mention Donnie ‘Factually, just get it over with’ T started just as many wars as Biden, if you weren’t his #1 simp?
Because Donnie didn’t. Donny retreated from Aghanistan. The dumbest thing he did was bomb Suleimani. But in the end that did not lead to war.
Biden is currently illegally at war with Yemen. He did not ask congress to go to war.
And Biden is currently supporting the israeli Genocide of Gaza with both military intelligence personell and weapons.
As much as you want to believe it, during his 2016-2020 rule Trump somehow did far less crazy shit than expected.
Will Trump continue the Genocide? Very likely.
Will Biden continue the Genocide? 100%.
Biden is currently illegally at war with Yemen. He did not ask congress to go to war.
Lolsimp
Did your donnie ask congress before he put missiles on Syria? Did he ask congress before he put a genocide on IS?
Are all American “debates” like this? The moderators just let them rattle off lies and skip the questions without challenging them?
They’re getting much worse
Pretty much every Trump debate has been like this. This one was actually an improvement from 2020 and 2016 because his microphone was turned off so he wasn’t able to just yell over the other person and constantly interrupt.
I don’t know if this is an improvement. As many feared, the muted mic saved Trump from himself. I’m sure his staff was actually pretty excited about that rule.
It would prevent him from doing what he did last time, which polled terribly.
That’s very true, I should of said “from a civility standpoint it’s an improvement”.
Nope.
Up till this year a non partisan committee handled the debates and lent it an air of impartially and at least tried to hold candidates to the questions.
Both parties decided to boycott those debates, and set up their own with CNN as the host.
I’ve been bitching about it for months now and everyone’s been telling me it’ll be fine…
Hard disagree. This wasn’t unusual. Presidential debates are notorious for moderators being ineffectual and unwilling to challenge lies.
I’ve never seen a debate where the moderators did a fact check. You’ll see candidates call each other out sometimes, but moderators don’t actually moderate. Timing answers to be ridiculously short so nothing of substance can be said is also a perennial feature.
Oh man… in all my years I have only seen one… (and it was this year!)… but it was not a presidential one… it was an AMAZING Republican primary debate in Colorado.
I WISH they got these guys to be the moderators. Would have fucking bashed Trump.
If all debates for like that one. I would not miss a single debate. He cut through the b******* and got straight to the answers or not answers as the case may be. Which is what a debate moderator should do. A debate moderator is not intended to be a personified a cue card. The Talking Heads at CNN failed even harder than I ever thought they could with their moderation.
Lol last night before the debate started, I sent a message to my friends asking if it was too late to get Kyle Clark to moderate. The guy is amazing.
Fact checkers challenged many of Trump’s statements. Trump falsely said that he “brought back (college) football”; as he had commented on his wish for the conferences to play, but took no official action. Trump also repeated the claim that he “got back” Seattle and Minneapolis from left-wing protesters, and continued to repeat conspiracy theories about voter fraud. He said, without evidence, that drug prices will fall “80 or 90 percent,” in reference to his efforts to cut drug prices[50] and exaggerated that he is making insulin at prices “so cheap, it’s like water”, despite insulin prices remaining fixed at about $300 per vial. Trump also misleadingly said that the U.S. economy before the pandemic was “the greatest economy in the history of our country”; although GDP growth was high in the first three years of the Trump presidency, it was higher under Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson, and Bill Clinton, and the unemployment rate was lower under Eisenhower.[51] Nominal GDP was higher than at any point in US history, but this is true for the large majority of US Presidencies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_debates#Format_and_debate
Those all happened afterwards. During the debate nobody has ever been told they lied about a particular thing by a moderator.
I hope you appreciate this, because I had to watch those two argue more:
I’m sorry, but what universe are you living in? You don’t remember this exchange?
I’ve never seen a debate where the moderators did a fact check.
During the one Obama Romney debate I remember Obama asking for a live fact check of some sort and getting it. So it’s happened before.
Yes, Obama had to ask for it. The moderator wasn’t about to say Romney was a lying sack of shit on their own. That’s my point.
In general, the “debates” have always been a nationally televised pissing contest for as long as I’ve watched them.
They are now, apparently.
Oh absolutely. I meant only they weren’t so glaringly obvious, always.
Yes. 90% of the time is almost always off topic. Sometimes a candidate spends a whole sentence saying something related, but that’s as close to organized as it ever was.
Trump definitely does more personal attacks, but that’s about it. I’ve seen a moderator make a correcting statement once.
They only asked for the debate because they assumed Trump would say No to all the stupid stipulations they set for it. Then, they could’ve ran and told everyone that they tried to debate Trump but he wouldn’t accept. They were really just left with no choice when Trump accepted their terms
Well, that was also a dumb plan, then.
People need to chill the fuck out.
Do any of you remember the first debate between Kerry and W? W sounded and stammered like a compete moron, and it made no difference.
These debates are a waste of time and Biden should never have agreed to debate a traitor.
Bush didn’t sound nearly this bad. And they also ran such a novel attack campaign it invented a new term, “swift boating”. Which is right in line with Trump’s gish gallop. Bush was also a war time president.
These situations are not analogous, the dominoes are lined up completely differently.
W is younger than both Biden and Trump, the fact that we have geriatrics running is the real problem
Whoever wins gets the nuclear football. Neither of these assholes is with it enough consistently to deserve that responsibility.
then look at it this way - which of them is more likely to act on a stupid impulse, and is surrounded by incompetent, lying yes-men?
Biden by a mile - but they’re both awful choices and clearly unqualified for the position.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
Your guy is a lost case and you are coping so hard. 🙄
Yes, exactly. Only now we’ve punched ourself in the nads and have to walk it off when there should never have been this issue.
