TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.
YT Video (5min)
Based on the comments here you’d think Copilot+ PC’s are actually a popular thing. Nobody here has a PC that will run Recall. Essentially nobody has a Copilot+ PC at the moment.
Side note: Recall isn’t the boogeyman it’s being made out to be.
The companies will do anything to make having the ai capacities built locally an acceptable thing via “cool” features like this or apples, and I think it is because once the devices can do the processing locally, it allows them to stop processing it themselves on their servers. This will also allow them to use microphone and why not camera data as additional data points without having to send and process the actual microphone data. The only local software is open source AI implementations that are being used by FOSS applications, with no network access.
To me this isn’t about shareholder value and buzzwords, this is just the excuse to shove it into the OS. It’s a more long term game they are playing: the one of reducing their costs and improving the value/accuracy of the data that they get, since it will be pre-digested 100% locally in the background, which is not limited by network latency and bandwidth.
As much as I would love this to kick MS in the backside, it won’t. The public at large has no idea what this is or why it’s bad and evil. They will buy a computer, it will come with Windows, and they’ll use it like they always have. Companies and Govts will gripe initially, but give in because their ancient VB enterprise apps only run on Windows.
So, I just bought a new laptop. It came with Windows 11. But anyways, I’m writing this comment from a freshly installed Bazzite Linux OS.
/s just in caseSo… how does this exist in corporate environments where PCI DSS is necessary? Is the government also going to have to deal with fallout from this?
I wonder if there will ever be a point where legislation dictates features from an os vendor… we lost control of our hardware when they started forcing updates. I’m sure someone will hack a DLL or something to allow explorer to run but kill this component… But should we really need to hack our systems to protect ourselves from spying?
Inb4 Linux - I ran Slackware in the early 90s, and my server still runs a deb based distro… but when I want to play Forza, I’m pretty limited with my choices, etc.
From my understanding, you can prevent Recall from running just fine, you only can’t remove it.
OS level malware. I suspect it will be turned on in an update a few years down the road. And then MS will be caught, say “whoops my bad!” And pay a 100 million dollar fine after their new valuation on the stock market of 5 trillion dollars.
Microsoft: We’re going to arbitrarily require TPM and SecureBoot and say that makes Windows 11 more secure even though that’s a feature of your motherboard, not our operating system.
Also Microsoft: In Windows 11 the file explorer program depends on a program that periodically sends us screenshots of your screen.
So secure!
Security <> privacy. And this is where they slice the difference. Although, they’re not secure, either lol
Sending random screenshots somewhere is not secure at all lmao. That’s a hacker’s wet dream.
I’ve been wondering this too. Will there be a way for company policy admins to somehow remove this fully? I work in an industry that deals with very sensitive and private information - no way in hell this would ever even remotely be allowed or pass any audits. Even just existing but being disabled could be problematic.
But big companies aside, how will this impact small companies who have no real in house IT? The potential for it to be capturing and storing stuff like, as you say anything required by PCI compliance, could turn into a nightmare. We also know this will inevitably be hacked or used by spyware somehow, someday, too no matter how secure they say it may be. So now a bad actor can recall an entire day work and data capture from a worker?
Wondering the same here. I work in an extremely regulated industry as well. We have MS as a strategic partner but haven’t even deployed win 11 yet.
That said we have a deal to use co-pilot and also chatGPT. Both in a unique version that is compliant with company policies. Co-pilot integration into teams is not quite recall level but similar, think video transcripts, meeting and chat summaries, etc. I have no clue how this works practically but I assume there are some strict contracts regarding training data and data usage in place.
For years… well pretty much since I had a PC, I had a Windows partition. Why? Well because I (sadly) paid for the damn thing (damn OEM deals). Plus, I admit, sometimes they were things that only ran on Windows.
For few years now though, everything, literally, from the latest tech gadget to playing games to VR, works on Linux.
Few weeks ago I deleted the Windows partition. I didn’t have to. I didn’t boot on it for months. It didn’t affect me.
Still, I now feel … safer, more relaxed, coherent.
When I see shit like that, I feel even better!
Even Windows exes work on Linux now. It took me some time and learning but I got Wine to work with some program from my walkie talkie’s manufacturer and it involves serial programming over USB.
Indeed but I very rarely, if ever need it except for some games. Usually there are FLOSS equivalent of most software. They are sometimes worst but often just as good and, obviously, they can be modified. So Wine and Proton are amazing but hopefully needed less and less.
Sadly Windows is still required for a lot of cad softwares.
BricsCAD has a native Linux client
I havent found anything I can’t do with freecad and blender.
Freecad is OK but it wouldn’t even be considered in a commercial setting like I’m working in. I work with Catia, Solidworks and Polyworks. None on those run on Linux.
Put it in a shame box (VM). This is how I run my specialty software.
vMs work well too though.
VM is still windows tho, just one layer deeper.
That’s my situation, except I haven’t deleted my partition yet, mostly because it sits on a separate physical disk. Maybe one day…
VR works on Linux? Thru Steamvr?
Yes, I even play VR Windows games on Linux., the latest one released just weeks ago being Subside.
I’m using a Valve Index but with ALVR even standalone HMDs, e.g. (sadly from Meta) the cheap Quests line. You can find a lot more details on https://lvra.gitlab.io
Depends on the headset, they don’t all work on Linux unfortunately.
SteamVR and ALVR are the only ones that I’ve gotten to work, no dice on standalone DCS though which was the whole reason I bought the damn headset a couple years ago
It was mostly working 2 years ago when I tried it last. I just had some weird frame dropping issues at the time that I can only imagine were fixed by now. This post is making me want to try VR again on my linux install
The best windows debloater is delete system32 and install Linux,.
Yea about a year ago I switched entirely over to Linux. I am a system engineer so I have to deal with windows at work all the time but on my computer, I feel calm. Like I don’t have to worry about my operating system. Windows is getting in the way more than it’s helping 99% of the time now.
I have windows on another physical disk and I plan to delete my windows partition in 2025 and start a software raid 0 configuration, sadly linux is not yet ready.
Judging by the comments in this thread this will be the one defining mistake that kills Microsoft.
Nah, Lemmy is not really representative of the wider Windows userbase. The willingness to switch away from Windows is definitely going to be far higher in those who were willing to switch away from Reddit.
It will, however, add more users to the critical mass that has previously prevented Linux from being mainstream. Already we are seeing more and more software adoption. The average Facebook/word processor user can use Linux with no issues. And the average gamer can use Linux with minimal problems as well. Hell, the dominant PC gaming handheld runs Linux, not Windows. That itself is damning.
This was not the case 10 years ago, and it is clear what path is being forged.
how the fuck do you even begin making recall a dependency for explorer?
how the fuck could they have possibly done things in a way that makes explorer tabs depend on recall?
if they can’t even separate out recall from the rest of the operating system then i have absolutely no faith it will be secure.
how the fuck could they have possibly done things in a way that makes explorer tabs depend on recall?
It’s very clearly an intentional move to keep it installed.
It’s so you can’t rip Recall out without ruining Explorer, and possibly other things
Internet explorer did similar things, try to remove it and the OS would just crash.
A browser, which is like the prime attack vector for malware and other nasty stuff, having direct memory access is so hilarious in hindsight
These days you try to sandbox everything as much as possible in the browser since the internet is like the least trusted environment there is
Except the OS in this case lol
it also had direct memory access to make it faster
WHAT?!! That’s a special level of wbject disregard for security.
Thank goodness for Linux.
Switched a few months ago and glad I did
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years. It’s nice to see them finally do good things to help it.
Quick edit to add that it couldn’t come at a better time now that there are companies like system 76 out there. Making Linux compatible systems that ship with Linux that you can actually recommend to someone who is a novice to pick up. They may be on a more expensive side. But what’s your privacy worth?
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years.
what did they do?? i havent heard of this before damn
They did PR campaigns against Linux and OpenOffice for quite some time – until cloud computing took off and it turned out they could earn more money by supporting Linux than by fighting it.
In fact, Microsoft weren’t happy about FOSS in general. I can still remember when they tried to make “shared source” a thing: They made their own ersatz OSI with its own set of licenses, some of which didn’t grant proper reuse rights – like only allowing you to use the source code to write Windows applications.
But what’s your privacy worth?
I think society has shown us time and time again over several decades that the answer to that question is “not a God damned thing”.
A few cents per gigabyte ackshually.
Owned a system 76 unit years ago. Was lacking in the QC area.
I switched to a Framework 13 after having a system76 Darter Pro, and it’s a whole other league. Incredibly well-built, feels great, runs great, flashy as hell, even the fingerprint reader works out of the box with Fedora KDE.
I’m sudoing in the terminal with my fingers! It’s magic! And it just works!
Also, I managed to drop it in the most stupid way so it bent the whole case, and I could get it fixed for 200 EUR, one day shipping and 20 minutes of work by myself, and that was a full casing swap, so bottom assembly plus keyboard assembly, whole case but the mobo and the stuff on it.
This is what having a laptop should work like. That’s what they took from you.
Their laptops are built on third party chassis. I have their keyboard and that thing is SOLID. I expect their desktops (that are custom made) are also quite solid.
Laptops… I’d lean frame.work if you know your way around a Linux installer. That said, there are rumors that system76 is working on a custom laptop chassis (still, framework is hard to beat for modularity).
Edit: while not specifically QC related… I suspect the things that aren’t really custom built for them might not get the same level of care/might be more on their supplier depending on the issue.
Also have their keyboard and its amazing. I’ll be doing the same, System76 Desktop and Framework Laptop for my next upgrades.
I build my own desktops, but they do sell their case individually. I’ll definitely be considering that for my next upgrade.
I have a Gazelle12 from 2018 and it’s chassis is dogshit, but when I did my research before purchasing I saw a lot of reviews. They all pointed out that the case was made of flimsy plastic, so I was aware ahead of time of that potential problem. The Oryx Pro was the next Model up for several hundreds more, though. Ultimately, I am happy with my laptop even if I have to disassemble it just to repair the chassis with epoxy periodically. It’s 6 years later and the specs are still more than adequate for 99% of my needs, except for my specific intel processor which isn’t supported by Win11. I consider that a feature as oppose to a problem. The software bloat and planned obsolessence through slowdowns of software on Windows based computers are things I do not miss one bit.
IIRC Framework can preinstall fedora for you since it’s officially supported. I use Fedora on an AMD Framework 13 and its been very smooth. Even the fingerprint sensor works.
it was vastly easier to install linux mint than it is to figure out registry editing or whatever the fuck i’d need to avoid this
I absolutely love Linux mint. I use it daily for dev work, but I’d also install it on my mother’s old laptop so she could keep using Facebook on it or whatever.
I’ve been very impressed by the out-of-the-box experience with Pop!_OS. My Steam games work, and I have Elder Scrolls Online running through Lutris.
So far, everything just works.
I have to admit that one does look really good too.
I have a couple of old windows machines at home, so eventually (maybe as a winter project) I’ll need to decide if I want to try some other distros long term.
Same. First distro that was actually painless 10 years ago, and I haven’t looked back.
The difference between Linux and Windows is on Linux you’re working with the operating system to make modifications and taking advantage of its vast resources (extensive wikis on major distos, terminal auto completion with fish and zsh, preconfigured defaults when installing through the package manager, etc). Meanwhile on Windows you’re actively working against the system in order to disable unwanted features like AI and telemetry.
(Also I would recommend looking into Debian, the software may be a tad bit old but its the most stable distribution)
Happy Debian daily driver here. I would never ever recommend raw Debian to a garden variety would-be Linux convert.
If you think something like Debian is something a Linux illiterate can just pick up and start using proficiently, you’re severely out of touch with how most computer users actually think about their machines. If you even so much as know the name of your file explorer program, you’re in a completely different league.
Debian prides itself on being a lean, no bloat, and stable environment made only of truly free software (with the ability to opt-in to nonfree software). To people like us, that’s a clean, blank canvas on a rock-solid, reliable foundation that won’t enshittify. But to most people, it’s an austere, outdated, and unfashionable wasteland full of flaky, ugly tooling.
Debian can be polished to any standard one likes, but you’re expected to do it yourself. Most people just aren’t in the game to play it like that. Debian saddles questions of choice almost no one is asking, or frankly, even knew was a question that was ask*-able*. Mandatory customizeability is a flaw, not a feature.
I am absolutely team “just steer them to Mint”. All the goodness of Debian snuck into their OS like medicine in a kid’s dessert, wrapped up in something they might actually find palatable. Debian itself can be saved for when, or shall I say if, the user eventually goes poking under the hood to discover how the machine actually ticks.
Debian is probably one of the worst choices for someone looking to try Linux, especially for gaming.
Nothing better than setting everything up only to find you can’t install some new thing because you’re xyz is too old
I was on Debian Sid for a year or 2 and gaming was working perfectly until I did an update that uninstalled my GUI and WiFi drivers. I’m on Mint now and it’s been smooth sailing so far
Debian is always my first choice, but I’m not playing the newest stuff (Far Cry 5/7D2D/Ark/etc), while it hasn’t been ‘smooth sailing’, I haven’t found anything that just refuses to play.
This is where some Windows shill says “you only need to fix it once!” as if this is your only computer ever, and the only problem you need to fix. And then Windows changes it back to their default in next year’s update.
And as if it’s entirely reasonable for the maker of your OS to intentionally work against your ability to control your own hardware and what runs on it.
And some Windows update would “accidentally” undo that anyways.
Nah, mate, Linux is hard, you need to know what a Wayland is. In comparison, Windows is very simple and lightweight, you only have to run a dozen Powershell scripts and edit the registry weekly to get rid of ads.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie… “Windows is very simple and lightweight” 😂
“Do I look like I know what a Wayland is?”
I just want a picture of a goddamn hotdog
You sonova… Have an upvote
Welcome to Linux Mint mate!
Maybe Cinnamon mate!
I thought Cinnamon and Mate were different things… /s
For the people who doesn’t get it (I notice your /s, so you do get it): It’s has a hidden joke. Mate can also mean “friend”. So “Welcome to Linux Mint mate!” can mean two things at the same time. Hence my reply: “Maybe Cinnamon mate!”, where “Cinnamon” refers to “Linux Mint Cinnamon”, but mate just refers to friend/buddy. But Mate can also mean MATE, a classic desktop environment for Linux Mint.
Oh haha, didn’t realise that pun was intended… But yeah thats right :)
yes thank you!
I’m thinking of changing my life (to require less of rot-affected computing) and moving to FreeBSD. Even Linux is hard in small ways, even if worlds easier than Windows. Would be OpenBSD if not for games.
Mate you think BSD is better than Linux for ease-of-configuration – in what fucking universe?!
I dunno
in what fucking universe
“BSD” is one thing, so can’t answer your question.
If you meant that Linux has a lot of graphical configurators to do things - GUI is not necessarily easier than editing config files, because config files can be clean and compact and examples well-commented, and documentation can actually describe how to use the bloody thing. It’s just that in Linux this is not the case. While GUI configurators can be hardly usable nonsense and yes, in Linux they mostly are.
And this difference in wide strokes is indeed common for all 4 BSDs against Linux for things that differ between operating systems.
The rest sucks just as badly.
So, iirc, recall was a copilot+ PC “feature”. Will this recall integration be the case on “normal” x86 PCs as well?
I moved all my personal stuff over to Windows about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, there’s still a few things in my life that requires windows…
Good thing I don’t use Tabs.
